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Old 04-25-2014, 10:46 AM
 
71,568 posts, read 71,730,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I doubt New York requires mandatory payment of a % of assets. Florida doesn't.

Also - probate pretty much closes the door on all existing and possible claims against an estate. Without probate - creditors can jump out of the woodwork years down the road (with legitimate or frivolous claims).

FWIW - our last probate (my late FIL's) cost us $4k in attorney's fees. Based on actual hours spent doing the probate. On a 7 figure estate. Robyn
it varies state to state.

here is what I found on ny..

"How Do Probate Costs Vary Between States?

The costs of probate vary from state to state. Such costs depend on estate’s size, disputes among inheritors, existence of valid will or trust, as well as complexity of the probated estate.

New York’s probate cost can range anywhere from 2% to 7% of estate’s value, but could be more under certain circumstances. Depending on the estate’s value, executor’s as well as attorneys’ fees in NY vary between 2.5% to 5% while court costs may range from $215 to $1,250.

Florida sets out a reasonable attorney fees schedule: depending on estate’s value, just the attorney’s fees associated with probate may be as low as $1,500 or as high as $165,000 with additional percentage taken off. In Connecticut, the probate court applies a schedule for determination of court fees: first $10,000 of estate is assessed $150, then 0.35% is applied to $10,000 - $500,000 range, and 0.25% to the estate’s value cutting $500,000 threshold."
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
it varies state to state.

here is what I found on ny..

"How Do Probate Costs Vary Between States?

The costs of probate vary from state to state. Such costs depend on estate’s size, disputes among inheritors, existence of valid will or trust, as well as complexity of the probated estate.

New York’s probate cost can range anywhere from 2% to 7% of estate’s value, but could be more under certain circumstances. Depending on the estate’s value, executor’s as well as attorneys’ fees in NY vary between 2.5% to 5% while court costs may range from $215 to $1,250.

Florida sets out a reasonable attorney fees schedule: depending on estate’s value, just the attorney’s fees associated with probate may be as low as $1,500 or as high as $165,000 with additional percentage taken off. In Connecticut, the probate court applies a schedule for determination of court fees: first $10,000 of estate is assessed $150, then 0.35% is applied to $10,000 - $500,000 range, and 0.25% to the estate’s value cutting $500,000 threshold."
The problem in looking at these percentages is that - at least in states like Florida - there is nothing to prevent a personal representative from negotiating either an hourly or flat fee with a lawyer which has nothing to do with the size of the estate. A $5 million estate doesn't necessarily take 10 times more hours to handle than a $500,000 estate (they could take the same amount of hours - or the smaller one could even take more time than the larger one).

FWIW - here in Florida - if everyone agrees about everything (and signs waivers) - a lawyer doesn't even have to go to court even once. And - if everyone doesn't agree about something substantial (sometimes even something that's trivial) - you'll probably wind up in court no matter what the estate plan looks like.

The most important thing isn't avoiding costs and fees - but making sure everyone is on the same page in terms of "the plan". And understanding completely the potentially big problem areas. One huge problem area is the inherent conflict between the income beneficiary of a trust (usually a spouse) and the corpus beneficiaries of a trust when the surviving spouse dies (usually children - sometimes children from a former marriage). With trustees often caught in the middle. The whole thing sounds easy in practice - income to spouse - corpus to children - but the reality is far from easy - especially in today's low interest rate environment:

Fiduciary Trust International

I am sometimes asked for "curbside" opinions about things like this. And - in many cases - I strongly advise against the use of any trusts in estates that don't have estate tax issues (< $5.34 million at the federal level today). Especially in second marriage situations where both spouses are relatively young (< 75) and have been married for relatively long periods of time (> 20 years). Because people honestly don't know how their kids/grandkids/spouses of same are going to feel about step-mom/dad spending what they think is *their* inheritance 5-10-15 years after the grantor is gone. These situations often get pretty ugly.

FWIW - estate taxes are so ridiculous in New York that I'm surprised anyone who has substantial means is still a legal resident of the state:

New York rich face tax surprise when they die

De Blasio

Robyn
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:10 PM
 
71,568 posts, read 71,730,589 times
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thats where you are wrong! estate taxes in ny are becoming fabulous. we are on our way to a 5 million dollar exemption by 2017 with 2 million already phased in and a million added each year..

the bill that was signed 3 weeks ago had a glitch in the wording.it was such a complex bill the way each year the old exemption was phased out and the new higher limit phased in they screwed up what happens when you are over the limit and the old limit phased out before the new higher limit phased in so tyou fall off a tax cliff and get taxed at dollar one in error..

it will be corrected eventually and retroactive.

they did the same thing last year when they signed the new york gun act banning magazines with more than 10 round capacity.

they forgot the wording to exempt law enforcement and had to go back and re-write parts.


why still be a resident here? because of reasons some folks wouldn't know about , our kids and grandkids live here and we are a part of their lives.
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
thats where you are wrong! estate taxes in ny are becoming fabulous. we are on our way to a 5 million dollar exemption by 2017 with 2 million already phased in and a million added each year..

the bill that was signed 3 weeks ago had a glitch in the wording.it was such a complex bill the way each year the old exemption was phased out and the new higher limit phased in they screwed up what happens when you are over the limit and the old limit phased out before the new higher limit phased in so tyou fall off a tax cliff and get taxed at dollar one in error..

it will be corrected eventually and retroactive.

they did the same thing last year when they signed the new york gun act banning magazines with more than 10 round capacity.

they forgot the wording to exempt law enforcement and had to go back and re-write parts.

why still be a resident here? because of reasons some folks wouldn't know about , our kids and grandkids live here and we are a part of their lives.
In states like Florida with no estate tax (or those where the state exemption = the federal exemption) - we don't have to worry where we'll be by 2017 (or 2019 - have read conflicting articles about the target dates). But paying like 16% for the "privilege" of dying in New York - sheesh. Thanks but no thanks.

You may think the future is "fabulous" - but I doubt most people with money would agree with you. Robyn
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:46 PM
 
71,568 posts, read 71,730,589 times
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i am not concerned about people with over 5 million . my concern is my family.

when it comes to estate taxes things can change on a dime. choosing a place to live because of estate taxes would be not very smart.

illinois reinstated theirs, maryland had a temporary one which is now permanent, minnesotta tightened up theirs and disallowed many of the ways to skirt them.

you can live in a no estate tax state and next thing you know you need care and have to move where family is in another state.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:04 PM
 
Location: California
4,554 posts, read 5,470,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
I am fairly confident some of my former clients did not tell me about assets that they either forgot about or considered "outside" of their estate. Those are usually the clients who want a "simple will", not estate planning. I breathed a sigh of relief when our state rescinded the "right" of the heirs to sue the attorney who drafted the deceased's will.

Today I spoke with my father regarding his soon-to-be drafted will. I know darn well he does not know the extent of his estate and I am NOT going to tell him. There is no way he is going to remember all of his accounts, life insurance policies, etc., heck, sometimes he cannot remember his own children. I became so frustrated today I threw my hands up in the air and told him not to look to me for legal assistance. He's going to end up with a pathetic will and it won't be his attorney's fault.
One must have the "capacity" to execute a will or trust as far as I know. Hopefully, the lawyer will see there might be some mental issues and get a conservator if the relatives don't step up to care for the client.

My beneficiaries are charities so I'm really not concerned what the relatives want or the taxes.
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