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Old 04-21-2014, 11:37 AM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
You do realize, though, that in this latest message you've acknowledged personal value in over-preparedness, in the same way others place value on family, travel, etc. For many, if not most, people, preparedness is not a goal in itself but only a means to an end.
Yup and my values are family, travel plus others and being over prepared enables me to enjoy them. Oh yeah and charity is on that list so we are able to spread our preparedness. Enjoy your thing and may it work for you as well as ours has SO FAR. Isn't that the goal for each of us to find the peace of life while we are still here? Since this thread was about SS and conspiracies my previous post were hopefully within that context. Please remember it is more blessed to give than receive and charitable giving in monetary form often comes from financial preparedness while those receiving are less fortunate for whatever reason. So with one of our ends being to help feed the less fortunate than that preparedness is the means. Got it? I doubt it!
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:44 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,881 posts, read 8,657,053 times
Reputation: 8401
Whatever makes you happy.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:46 AM
 
159 posts, read 105,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Most people are not in danger of saving too much for retirement, so I don't see the problem.
I don't always agree with Kotlikoff, and have written negatively about his plan for Social Security. I have never seen him doctor data in order to sell his ideology to anyone. That is a narrow audience in the Social Security debate.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:51 AM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caco54 View Post
I am not a believer in conspiracies. I think Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy, case closed. However every time there is an article on retirement savings or SS like:

"You must have 8 times your pay in retirement savings"

" Only take 4% per year in withdrawals"

"Delay SS until 70.5"

The board lights up with "financial institutions want you to have more money so they make more money" and the "government hopes you die before 70.5".

Is this just good advice or do you believe there is an alterative motive to all these articles?
Please note this is post number 1 and my over prepared post was number 2 and clearly in response to. If a person wants to go the full recommended route by the financial industry some would consider them over prepared others wouldn't and since it is the individual's choice I just rolled with it. Someone asked in a thread the other day how much do you need for health care and I gave the industry range of 250-300k set aside. Another poster took exception and felt that was the industry manipulating to make folks save more than needed. Ok is there something wrong with having 300k sitting if needed and if not ok. Do we stop worrying about reserves in retirement?
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:52 AM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Whatever makes you happy.
TY and likewise you.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,325,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
When I was a boy (and that was a LONG time ago), my father told me to be skeptical of any claim advanced by the person who had something for sale. So yes, investment companies are going to be funding studies designed to "prove" that we all need huge amounts to retire. I wouldn't exactly call it a "conspiracy" but it is the normal skewing of a discussion by those who have something to gain from skewing it.
I would totally agree.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,325,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingduo View Post
4% is an interesting number but it might be a good rule of thumb. 8 times your pay is not much. Are we talking 8 times your annual salary? A person making 30k a year would only need to save 240k? Yikes! What kind of retirement would that provide?

SS delayed until 70 is good provided you file and suspend at Full Retirement Age (FRA). Getting it early will mean lower payments in the future when inflation could be eating away at your lifestyle.

What many forget is that the retirement savings they accrued over the years is for their retirement to enjoy. When people get to that time frame they look at it as something they can pass on to their heirs instead of enjoying all the hard work. Let the kids enjoy it. Yikes! I want to leave something for my daughter but I will be damned if I let her have it all after I skrimped and saved for what little I have.
Actually, accumulating $240k at FRA is a pretty hefty sum for a person who is only currently making only 30k and is ready to retire. That individual hasn't been making $30k a year for the last 40 years. It's more than likely that he/she made perhaps only 20 or 40% of that early on in his/her working years. Since the median household income in the US remains about $50k, there are a lot of people who in this country who are working and not living on very much now.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
<snip>
I recently listened to an interview on NPR with someone who seemed to understand statistics, investments, etc., and I think I heard him correctly when he said 50% of us don't make it to our average life expectancy age and when we take into consideration family and personal health histories ... many of us may be skimping a bit too much in retirement to amass a larger pool of funds, to make our money "last" until our last day on Earth. <snip>
You are closer to correct than most posters. I cringe every time someone writes that a ____ year-old man or woman expects to live until age ____. Social Security uses the median in determining life expectancy.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,729,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
.... I cringe every time someone writes that a ____ year-old man or woman expects to live until age ____. Social Security uses the median in determining life expectancy.
Doesn't everyone, including all the people who quote statistical life expectancy data, realize that an individual's life span can vary enormously from median (or average for that matter) life expectancy? I view the statistical quotations as simply a setting in context of the discussion. From that statistical context, we all apply our own ideas about our individual longevity based on individual factors. But even with the individual factors it's still a stab in the dark. Family history of early deaths? Well, one might just be the exception. Family history of extreme longevity? Well, one might just be the exception to that as well. Health status at a given age? Well, that could change from one minute to the next - for example in the case of a disabling stroke.

As an example of the latter, I am in fairly robust health at age 70, and my father died at age 85 and mother at age 91. I quit smoking over 40 years ago, and I have never abused drugs or alcohol. But none of that guarantees anything. I could be dead tomorrow, or a year from now, or I could live until 90, although I sure as hell hope not, as I think that would be a fate worse than death.

So in terms of financial planning as it relates to expected longevity, I agree that it's a very individual matter, but I still think it's legitimate to cite expected longevity data.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,844,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Actually, accumulating $240k at FRA is a pretty hefty sum for a person who is only currently making only 30k and is ready to retire. That individual hasn't been making $30k a year for the last 40 years. It's more than likely that he/she made perhaps only 20 or 40% of that early on in his/her working years. Since the median household income in the US remains about $50k, there are a lot of people who in this country who are working and not living on very much now.
Let me first say I agree with you 240k would be a hefty sum for a wage earner making 30k. In fact I don't think they could possibly make that much of a sum with one caveat. My point here is that there is no way that kind of money could make it for 30 years. It might be able to stretch 15 years but one huge medical bill or catastrophic health issue and it is gone.
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