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Old 04-26-2014, 05:08 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,763 posts, read 7,043,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
This is why I put aside through 401k and seek to spend the rest as long as it doesn't mean we're living paycheck to paycheck... when we're still young and in our prime years. I never understood hoarding money for gray and old.
I think one of the main reasons people do that is because they're afraid if they don't they may outlive their money. Or, if they're used to being frugal, and in being that way built up that amount of money over their lifetimes, they don't know how not to be frugal.

Or they really want to leave a significant amount to children, grandchildren, etc.

Or all three reasons.
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,334,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
No - the reason to have more money is to avoid dealing with a whole lot of Moderator cut: language

My husband and I had a most unpleasant encounter today at a local museum. Somehow got involved in a conversation with 2 teachers (1 high school - aged 72 - 1 university - aged 80). These people were still working because they have a middle aged son with lots of "needs" (who is costing them $40k+/year). And they were blaming every politician who's been in office in Florida over the last 3 decades for their sorry state.

Like I said - an unpleasant encounter. But the problems these and other other people have can be solved with money. Of course - most problems people have are less expensive. But I never want to be in a position where I can't afford a new set of nice tires - or to fix a roof leak - or to pick up a new washing machine if mine dies - not to mention buying a med my doctor says I should be taking - etc. because I don't have money. Robyn
I totally agree. I don't want to have lots of free time but not have any money to buy hobby supplies or have fast internet access or go to lunch with friends or take a bus trip with a seniors' group. I don't want to not be able to pay for meds, for dental work, for a cleaning lady, for cable/satellite tv, etc, etc.

That lady that the OP referred to who thinks she's going to live high on the hog on $24k a year is in for a rude awakening IMO. That's a pretty slim income for somebody who apparently was used to living on considerably more.

Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-26-2014 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:19 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Technology can make things easier for people who need some kinds of help. But it's not going to help the person who is incontinent and doesn't know because of dementia that he or she should be changing the adult diapers. Most ALFs I see now are basically "memory care" places - and they tend to deal with people who have minor to medium dementia. Robyn
Actually, ALFs are not licensed to deal with people who have more than minor to medium dementia, or who are unable to perform the activities of daily living pretty much on their own, or who need skilled nursing care. Although we frequently see people in some of those ALFs who really shouldn't be there.

Another issue that may have an undesired effect on the senior home healthcare, leaving this option in question, is the planned cuts in Medicare for home health care services under Obamacare..

WEBER: Obamacare cuts home healthcare for millions of seniors - Washington Times
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivingDeadGirl View Post
You are correct about the catastrophic events. In my retirement it is the expensive and unexpected expenses that continue to plague me. Eg: 2 under concrete water leaks in the past few months each costing over $800 to repair. Then the "big freeze" in New Mexico in 2011 which did severe damage, brought in bark beetle and has affected some of my 90 year old Italian stone pines and eldarica pines. I am spending $3,000 annually on tree service since then. Add to that enormous vet bills for 3, 14 yrs old dogs, my own dental and medical, and the so-called budget is the joke of the century.

And I also enjoy the simple life now: puttering around the house but as you can see, that can become enormously expensive.

Sure I can sell out, kill off the dogs and get an apartment but I'd rather die first. I think all we retirees agree that one must save as much as possible when young, invest, and then hope for the best.
IMO - your expenses - except for the water leaks - are in the totally discretionary category. Can't fault you for paying them though (I'd pay for my medical stuff before the stuff my trees need - but I would hate to kiss my trees goodbye because I couldn't pay for them). But what about the seniors who can't afford to pay for the basics? I can't tell you how many seniors I see diving on bald tires.

FWIW - I spend a bit more than you do on tree stuff and landscaping. It's a labor/expenditure of love to me. I love my trees and the birds and other wildlife in my yard more than about 90% of the people I know. If - at some point - I couldn't afford to take care of it (unlikely) - and/or make the arrangements to take care of it (more likely) - and/or do the little I do personally now (very likely) - I'd sell the property and pass it on to someone in the next generation who cared for it as much as I do. At some points in our lives - if we get old enough - we have to be prepared to move on to the next stage(s). Robyn
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Actually, ALFs are not licensed to deal with people who have more than minor to medium dementia, or who are unable to perform the activities of daily living pretty much on their own, or who need skilled nursing care. Although we frequently see people in some of those ALFs who really shouldn't be there.

Another issue that may have an undesired effect on the senior home healthcare, leaving this option in question, is the planned cuts in Medicare for home health care services under Obamacare..

WEBER: Obamacare cuts home healthcare for millions of seniors - Washington Times
Think we're on the same page here. Some people here have said anyone can move into an ALF. That's not true in the areas of Florida I know or the places I've seen. First off - no one who's 100% is going to want to move into an ALF - unless they have a screw or two loose (which makes them less than 100% ). Second - when it comes to cognitive and physical disabilities - most ALFs work "within a range" of disabilities (and charge different amounts for different degrees of care). But - when someone gets to X amount of physical or cognitive care - no ALF will take you in (you're in SNF territory then). Although some ALFs will be faster or slower to kick out existing residents when they deteriorate.

FWIW - I had an uncle with dementia in California - and things seem to work differently there than in Florida. They have "dementia only" places - and the 2 places we visited him in in California would have been closed down in Florida years ago. They were outdated and disgusting IMO (although on the less expensive side). Robyn
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,747,361 times
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Default Three interesting takes on the philosophical/psychological angle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Ultimately the reason for the money is psychological. It just feels good to have a large portfolio. It just feels good to have a safety cushion and to have adequate cause to regard oneself as being above the fray, above the vicissitudes and oscillations of the economy.

For some people, it feels better to enjoy the moment, to build comfortable lives, to build lasting memories enabled by the judicious spending of money. Others are more driven by fear of penury. Still others prefer to accumulate money not from concern for the proverbial rainy day, but because their self-esteem is indexed to their portfolio.

Many of us of course have families and family obligations that preclude saving as much as we'd like. Others have student-loans, or healthcare expenses. But then there's a contingent of people, who from luck or planning or just the alignment of life's forces, have no dependents and no debts, but who enjoy a reasonable salary, and have the fortitude to live on a tiny fraction of that salary. Why do this? Isn't this misery? Perhaps. But there's a deep psychological reason. Every dollar not spend, every dollar going into investments, is another climb up the ladder. It's an overwhelming feeling of doing a kind of good, of building oneself up. It can become addictive. It's certainly not for everyone.

Ultimately, we all labor under insecurities and conflict between appetite and reality. Fanatical savings for a mythical old-age is just another form of such conflict. But I'd argue that it is relatively benign. There are dumber ways to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
No - the reason to have more money is to avoid dealing with a whole lot of sh**.

My husband and I had a most unpleasant encounter today at a local museum. Somehow got involved in a conversation with 2 teachers (1 high school - aged 72 - 1 university - aged 80). These people were still working because they have a middle aged son with lots of "needs" (who is costing them $40k+/year). And they were blaming every politician who's been in office in Florida over the last 3 decades for their sorry state.

Like I said - an unpleasant encounter. But the problems these and other other people have can be solved with money. Of course - most problems people have are less expensive. But I never want to be in a position where I can't afford a new set of nice tires - or to fix a roof leak - or to pick up a new washing machine if mine dies - not to mention buying a med my doctor says I should be taking - etc. because I don't have money. Robyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
I think one of the main reasons people do that is because they're afraid if they don't they may outlive their money. Or, if they're used to being frugal, and in being that way built up that amount of money over their lifetimes, they don't know how not to be frugal.

Or they really want to leave a significant amount to children, grandchildren, etc.

Or all three reasons.
Ohio_peasant, I wish I could rep your post twice, but once is all I'm allowed. What an astute and well though-out analysis. Robyn55, I share your basic feeling about not wanting to be without money to do the sorts of things you gave excellent examples of. However, I maintain that your stance is ultimately psychological and is covered in Ohio_peasant's analysis. You and I need (psychologically) a certain level of financial security, whereas other people just can't stand having a decent sum remain unspent; it is said the money burns a hole in their pocket. I don't understand that, but it is an undeniable trait in some people, and I think it's ultimately psychological.

Travellassie came pretty close to describing me. I abhor waste and always have. I am used to being frugal and "do not know how not to be frugal" because it's my comfort zone, psychologically. Of course there are extremes with that, like the ones we read about in the newspapers of someone everyone thought was totally destitute but died a multi-millionaire. I do not dumpster dive or wear rags and I treat myself to travel and live classical music concerts. I eat out on the average of once a day, but not at high-end restaurants.
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I totally agree. I don't want to have lots of free time but not have any money to buy hobby supplies or have fast internet access or go to lunch with friends or take a bus trip with a seniors' group. I don't want to not be able to pay for meds, for dental work, for a cleaning lady, for cable/satellite tv, etc, etc.

That lady that the OP referred to who thinks she's going to live high on the hog on $24k a year is in for a rude awakening IMO. That's a pretty slim income for somebody who apparently was used to living on considerably more.
I will never tell anyone how to spend his/her money. Because some people like this - and others like that. My father at age 95 is pretty much home bound (he doesn't have to be - we are willing to take him places - but that's his choice because he refuses to use a traveling wheel chair). He likes watching movies and shows on TV. And has spent/is spending a lot wiring up his place with internet TVs/Roku boxes and the latest and greatest Comcast/Netflix and similar offerings.

Also - it's become more difficult to get a good primary care doc in this neck of the woods outside a concierge medical practice. So he joined the one we had joined.

The more money you have - the more options you have. It's as simple as that. Robyn
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
...Robyn55, I share your basic feeling about not wanting to be without money to do the sorts of things you gave excellent examples of. However, I maintain that your stance is ultimately psychological...
Nothing psychological about it. Apart from everyday spending (which everyone should have covered in terms of income and expenses - regardless of the income/expense level) - I noticed the other day that our "new" AC system now has about 2 years left on warranty. When it cr**s out - I want to be able to call the A/C people and have them come out the next day with a new system (approximate cost $3-4k).

I read some people here saying - if my car breaks down - I won't replace it - so I don't have to worry about it. But that's not me. Doubt it's you either. Don't think either of us is planning to take the bus from here to there for the next couple of decades in our lives if we have to replace our cars.

So - at a minimum - you have to budget for day to day items you need/want. Things that will make you life more pleasant. As well as reasonably not hard to anticipate capital expenditures. Robyn
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,747,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Nothing psychological about it. Apart from everyday spending (which everyone should have covered in terms of income and expenses - regardless of the income/expense level) - I noticed the other day that our "new" AC system now has about 2 years left on warranty. When it cr**s out - I want to be able to call the A/C people and have them come out the next day with a new system (approximate cost $3-4k).

I read some people here saying - if my car breaks down - I won't replace it - so I don't have to worry about it. But that's not me. Doubt it's you either. Don't think either of us is planning to take the bus from here to there for the next couple of decades in our lives if we have to replace our cars.

So - at a minimum - you have to budget for day to day items you need/want. Things that will make you life more pleasant. As well as reasonably not hard to anticipate capital expenditures. Robyn
"Psychological" doesn't mean irrational, you know. You have given some more excellent examples to go with the ones already given, but you're preaching to the choir because I agree with them. We will just have to agree to disagree about whether our shared attitude is ultimately psychological or not.
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Old 04-26-2014, 07:56 PM
 
2,702 posts, read 3,745,668 times
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My pension is a set amount with cola's for each year.. This I will receive until I die.. Whether that is next year or 100 years from now... So I will either have enough to live or I won't.. I do not have a pension where I can take x amount out each year or the whole amount if I wish to... So like some of you I know what I am going to have until I die.. If I need more I will need to get a part time job... Lavish travel and expensive housing are not in my budget.. I rent anyhow and have a vehicle.. I can do things I want most of the time, but other times I have to think about it real hard or not do it at all.. But my life is far from crappy... I can go out to eat when I want and I love Steak which is not cheap.... Vegas is not far from me so I can go there about anytime I want... Have passes to SeaWorld so that is a nice break from boredom... And once or twice a year I take a vacation.... So although I do not have a huge amount of money sitting somewhere, I can still have a nice retirement....
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