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Old 04-25-2014, 03:36 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 8,069,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
I never understood hoarding money for gray and old.
I'm gray and old, having a grand time spending the money I hoarded. If I had spent it all when I was younger, I'd be broke and miserable now instead of having the time of my life.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I know someone (age 67) with 10-20 million in their accounts and they are giving it all to their kids (two girls)...
And your point is ....?
It's not exactly what I'd do but it's their life and their money, why shouldn't they do what they want?
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogie'smom View Post
this is the reason I don't spend a lot of time worrying about long term care. I'm not planning to leave an estate. The government/private facility can have whatever it needs from whatever is left if I somehow get sucked into the system.

thanks to the OP of this piece

Robynn55

I don't understand what problems with my thinking you are referring to since I am not interested in the services you mentioned.

I did hear that amazon is going to start delivering groceries which made me happy. That and places that deliver pizza, salads, sandwiches, etc should keep me fed. I live in a town where getting food should not be a problem. As to housekeeping, I'll be as clean as I want to be.

My neighbor calls 911 2 or 3 times a week. He has housekeeping service, home health, PT, etc. He may as well paint a target on his back. He goes from the hospital to "rehab" now and eventually comes back home, but, one day, they will keep him. I keep expecting to hear that he has fallen and broken something while he's away. I think he's a big baby but its his choice of how to live his life. He thinks he doesn't have a choice. It wouldn't suit me.

I expect I will ask for help when I want it. The main point being that I'm not worrying about it now. I am doing my best to take care of myself, enjoy life, and not get doctored to death just because I am getting older.

I have a friend up the street who is almost 20 yrs my senior. She's my inspiration.

Biscuitmom, perhaps better care at home thru technological advances can keep some people from deteriorating to a point where they need to be institutionalized. I think that's what TuborgP's SIL is saying. Sadly, I do think that there will always be a per centage who need institutional care.
I quoted this part of your message:

I don't worry about not being able to pay for long term care, at home or in an institution, should I live beyond my ability to manage my own life. And before anybody jumps in to say that their tax money will be used to pay for my care, you'll have to catch me first...

The piece you re-quoted is only talking about SNFs - not ALFs or similar. According to the professionals in the field I know - about 50% of all people will need care in some kind of non-independent living place before they die. Many have various degrees of dementia and require custodial care in ALFs - which - for the most part - isn't covered by things like Medicaid. Also - my father at age 95 - can't live entirely independently (although he's pretty close). He lives in a senior independent care facility here (in a 2 bedroom/2 bath villa situation that provides meals - cleaning - transportation - entertainment - emergency calls - etc.). Costs $4500/month. His sister lives in a similar place in another more expensive state (New York). Costs her about $6000/month for a smaller residence. In the absence of money - both might be "warehoused" in more institutional settings.

I am not clear on your neighbor who calls 911. Because you haven't said anything about his personal situation. How do you think he should live?

And how old are you? It's really easy to be glib about this stuff when you're younger. Not as easy when you're older. And - to me - you're not old unless you're > 80. Although some people can develop problems at younger ages (< 80) - and some don't have problems until they're older (> 90). You should never look at someone else as an "inspiration" - or a "big baby" - because you never know what hand *you've* been dealt. Robyn
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
They stay with family or they live at home alone until they're incapacitated enough to qualify for nursing homes, which Medicaid covers.

Whether ALFs are better/nicer than living with family depends upon many factors. Remember that you're a patient in a nursing home but you're a resident in an ALF. When a loved one is in an ALF, you can stay with them for extended visits, take them out for as long as you/they want, etc.

My mother and mother-in-law both chose to go to ALFs, when they had the option to live with family. MIL has been in one 18 months now, it's 1/4 mile from us and she's happy there, has a studio suite with her own furnishings, and friends she's known for years are also residents there. She has a kitchenette and can keep and make her own snacks and small meals if she wants. Prior to moving to the ALF, she had a stroke and spent a month in a nursing home where it was hell on earth. We couldn't wait to get her out of there.

My mom spent the last six months of her life in an ALF in the community where she had lived all her life and she was also happy and content there in a one-bedroom suite with her little dog and her own furnishings. Several of the staff were people she had known since they were children. She lived about an hour from me, and I stayed overnight with her at least once a week. Her kitchenette was sufficiently large and equipped that I could cook her favorite meals when I visited.
This is an uninformed message IMO. There are wonderful SNFs where you are a resident (like the one where my late FIL spent the last 3 years of his life) - and lousy ALFs and similar where you're treated no better than a dog.

What on earth makes you think that you can't visit someone in a SNF for an extended period of time (although you can't stay overnight in a resident's residence unless it has something like a separate bed - which would be unusual) - or that you can't take someone who's a resident of a SNF out of the SNF for however long you want?

And what was the SNF your MIL was in? So I can look it up. My late FIL was in this SNF - perhaps the best in Florida:

Nursing home, rehabilitation, physical therapy, occupational, speech, skilled nursing, adult day care, home health care, Jacksonville, Florida

Note that most people don't have a choice between an independent senior living facility or an ALF or a SNF. If they need what a SNF provides - an ALF will most likely not accept them. If they need what an ALF provides - an independent senior facility will most likely not accept them. And - if they only need an independent senior facility or an ALF - the SNF won't accept them either. Different people with different conditions/health issues need different levels of care. It is definitely not a "one size fits all" situation. Robyn
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:37 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 8,069,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
What on earth makes you think that you can't visit someone in a SNF for an extended period of time (although you can't stay overnight in a resident's residence unless it has something like a separate bed - which would be unusual) - or that you can't take someone who's a resident of a SNF out of the SNF for however long you want?
Apparently it differs from one state to another. In Texas, SNF = a skilled nursing facility and persons are admitted and treated there as in hospitals, they are under medical care, i.e. a SNF "provides organized and structured nursing care and service" under Texas Health and Safety Code, and also accepts Medicaid and limited Medicare. A patient normally cannot leave the facility without being discharged. They don't have "residences", they are assigned to "beds" and they can bring only the belongings that fit in the drawers and closet provided.

Assisted Living Facilities are regulated under a different code and are "driven by a philosophy that emphasizes personal dignity and autonomy to age in place in a residential setting while receiving increasing or decreasing levels of services as the person’s needs change." Residents are not required to receive structured nursing care, health professionals generally provide contracted and not oversight services, and the facilities don't receive Medicare or Medicaid (although Medicare will pay for eligible contracted medical services provided to residents).

Independent living facilities here have nothing to do with ALF's and SNF's, other than in the few Continuing Care Centers (CCCs) that offer a continuum umbrella.

I thought it was the same it all states, if not I stand corrected.

Last edited by biscuitmom; 04-25-2014 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:41 PM
 
Location: middle tennessee
1,926 posts, read 991,367 times
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I read the piece I quoted again. Its old information but I believe it talks about all types of care, including being cared for at home.

Also, I get to factor in both chronic and acute disease onset before the age of 65.

We have talked about statistics here before. If I owned an ALF or sold LTC insurance I might look at the numbers and honestly come to a different conclusion.

I don't mean to sound glib. I am content. I think telling people that they need a million dollars (or whatever the number is/was) to retire is ridiculous. Life has been risky since conception. I made it this far. I am not going to panic over these next few years at the end.

You will just have to take my word for it. My neighbor is a big baby.

"You should never look at someone else as an "inspiration" " Really?
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,018 posts, read 1,421,901 times
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I just want enough money to not have to worry about money!
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:54 PM
 
8,204 posts, read 11,921,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foglover View Post
However I suspect that many people travel simply because they can and because it is the thing to do.
That's probably one of the silliest things I've read on this forum in quite some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Few people spend all they have coming in.
Do you really believe that? Americans as a group are 11.68 trillion (with a t) in debt, with 854 billion (with a b) of that in revolving credit card debt. Almost half (46.7%) of all U.S. households carry a credit card balance, paying up to 21% APR, because they don't have the money to pay for all of their spending each month. The average credit card debt per indebted household is over $15,000.

American Household Credit Card Debt Statistics: 2014

Do you really believe these households have more money coming in than the money that they are spending each month?

Now before your blood pressure boils over, let me emphasize to you that I am simply taking issue with your statement and not necessarily criticizing people who don't have much (or any) savings. If you don't make much money, it's hard to save. Nevertheless, that doesn't negate the fact that your statement that "few people spend all they have coming in" flies in the face of statistical evidence to the contrary.
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:01 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,880,403 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
Assisted Living eligibility requirements are that the person needs assistance with activities in these categories: bathing, dressing, eating, transferring (getting out of bed, moving from one room or place to another), continence, toileting.
I don't see how remote monitoring and technology play a role in any of those.
She was talking about when we hit our 80's and 90's. 15-25 years from now.nit also involves visiting staff and the reality that the current system is not financially sustainable.
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,938,980 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
Apparently it differs from one state to another. In Texas, SNF = a skilled nursing facility and persons are admitted and treated there as in hospitals, they are under medical care, i.e. a SNF "provides organized and structured nursing care and service" under Texas Health and Safety Code, and also accepts Medicaid and limited Medicare. A patient normally cannot leave the facility without being discharged. They don't have "residences", they are assigned to "beds" and they can bring only the belongings that fit in the drawers and closet provided.

Assisted Living Facilities are regulated under a different code and are "driven by a philosophy that emphasizes personal dignity and autonomy to age in place in a residential setting while receiving increasing or decreasing levels of services as the person’s needs change." Residents are not required to receive structured nursing care, health professionals generally provide contracted and not oversight services, and the facilities don't receive Medicare or Medicaid.

Independent living facilities here have nothing to do with ALF's and SNF's, other than in the few Continuing Care Centers (CCCs) that offer a continuum umbrella.

I thought it was the same it all states, if not I stand corrected.
Oh my - looks like you're reading out of books and not walking around places. Or understanding how medical stuff works.

A person in a SNF is a person who needs a lot of medical care. But that doesn't mean they're a prisoner. Just like you're not a prisoner in a hospital. You're free to walk out any time you want (unless you're in a lock down area as a result of severe dementia - but those kinds of places exist in ALFs and "memory care" facilities as well). Just like you can walk out of a hospital bed if you care to (although it's generally not advised ).

OTOH - a person with a serious medical condition - no matter where they live - and his/her family are well advised to get medical advice about "trips" (whether short or medium or longer term). We had absolutely no issues about taking my late FIL out for the day for "field trips" - or coming to our house for various things. We did have to sign him in and out - because of potential liability issues when it comes to "losing" residents. As if he were a kid living in a dorm. No big deal. But - had he been something like a diabetic - we would have made darn sure we knew his medical needs during the day (he did have congestive heart failure - and we knew all his dietary restrictions when we were taking him out to eat - or he was dining at our house). Living in "hurricane country" - we also had emergency plans for us/him if we ever had to evacuate for a storm. Luckily - we never had to put those plans into action.

Most SNF residences are smaller than ALF residences (although not always) - and tend to look more "hospital like" because of the residents' needs for more medical care. For example - my late FIL - in addition to congestive heart failure - had 2 different kinds of metastatic cancer and had suffered a major stroke. He had everything working "above the neck" - but not much working below it. And he needed lots of meds/medical care. As well as PT and OT at various points (in terms of learning how to do things like walk - swallow - talk best as possible - he had a tough time overcoming his stroke-related aphasia). So an excellent SNF was perfect for him. In the case of his SNF - it even was able to transition to his end of life hospice care when he needed it about 3 years after he moved in.

In most cases - people - because of their various health care situations - don't have a choice in this matter. Between an ALF and a SNF. There isn't an ALF in the world that would accept my late FIL as a resident. Because an ALF couldn't provide the care he needed. Just know that are some very excellent SNFs out there (although they don't come cheap). Robyn
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