SSA-820-BK: Experience/Help/Guidance... Please? (55, conversation, social security, 2013)

[CovePA]

I filled-out, then submitted form SSA-820-BK on November 10th, 2013 for year 2012.

Since submitting I have been in contact with the provided contact person. Given I am self-employed my case was referred to special team... Also known as a Claims Adjuster. I am not allowed to speak to this person and come to find out the contact person on the letter I received is just a front-end person who has no hands-on.

My front-end person reports if I don't get a response... Everything is good. This is my first time/year dealing with this. I think it is important to know if I have used any time towards my Trial Work Period.

Any experience with this? Suggestions on what I should do?

Thanks.

[VendorDude]

You can always request an in-person appointment at your nearest SSA office. Staff are typically very helpful. Meanwhile...

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0410510025

[CovePA]

Originally Posted by VendorDude

You can always request an in-person appointment at your nearest SSA office. Staff are typically very helpful. Meanwhile...

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0410510025

Good idea on making an in-person appointment! But... Each time (of many-many times) I called... No answer, then transferred to the national-folks. The national-folks report there is no information on Trial-Work-Periods (TWP) in my file.

I'm familiar with the publication you referenced... I have documented my work-time in detail. If you are not familiar with the self-employment rules and commission... There are two ways to calculate. The Claim-Adjuster can choose to do actual or average (monthly). It can work for or against me… Claim-Adjuster’s choice!

Examples… Actual would be credited to the month I received a commission check; If then it meets their criteria… It would be credit towards a TWP. Or they can average the year’s income over year (12 months). Then if under the minimum for a TWP… No TWP’s.

So depending on how these folks choose to calculate, actual or average, I could end up with different TWP’s.

[rjm1cc]

Originally Posted by CovePA

I filled-out, then submitted form SSA-820-BK on November 10th, 2013 for year 2012.

Since submitting I have been in contact with the provided contact person. Given I am self-employed my case was referred to special team... Also known as a Claims Adjuster. I am not allowed to speak to this person and come to find out the contact person on the letter I received is just a front-end person who has no hands-on.

My front-end person reports if I don't get a response... Everything is good. This is my first time/year dealing with this. I think it is important to know if I have used any time towards my Trial Work Period.

Any experience with this? Suggestions on what I should do?

Thanks.

I have found the employees very nice but have not gotten the correct results without a lot of work so keep pushing and if you can I would go to the SS office.

[lenora]

Originally Posted by CovePA

Good idea on making an in-person appointment! But... Each time (of many-many times) I called... No answer, then transferred to the national-folks. The national-folks report there is no information on Trial-Work-Periods (TWP) in my file.

I'm familiar with the publication you referenced... I have documented my work-time in detail. If you are not familiar with the self-employment rules and commission... There are two ways to calculate. The Claim-Adjuster can choose to do actual or average (monthly). It can work for or against me… Claim-Adjuster’s choice!

Examples… Actual would be credited to the month I received a commission check; If then it meets their criteria… It would be credit towards a TWP. Or they can average the year’s income over year (12 months). Then if under the minimum for a TWP… No TWP’s.

So depending on how these folks choose to calculate, actual or average, I could end up with different TWP’s.

I assume you record the date upon which you received each commission. In that case, the claims examiner does not average the year's income, s/he counts your monthly commissions as monthly earnings. This is not discretionary. If the examiner is unable to determine in which month you received the commission, he or she can then average the year's income over 12 months.

Here's the POMS link: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument

[CovePA]

I'm sorry I missed your post earlier. The link you provided has some intense information... Which I will have to spend more time reading.

Yes I did report commission in the months received.

Update: I have since spoke to the folks at my local office... They report there is nothing in my records about this.

FYI: I sent a registered letter requesting the results of their review.

Thanks for the continuing help!

Originally Posted by lenora

I assume you record the date upon which you received each commission. In that case, the claims examiner does not average the year's income, s/he counts your monthly commissions as monthly earnings. This is not discretionary. If the examiner is unable to determine in which month you received the commission, he or she can then average the year's income over 12 months.

Here's the POMS link: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...0!opendocument

[CovePA]

UPDATE: No response. Thoughts? Is there documentation that might support the lack of a response?

[lenora]

I'd have to double check, but best I can tell, you will not receive any notice until you have completed the TWP. You have a receipt proving that you submitted the form, yes?

[CovePA]

Originally Posted by lenora

I'd have to double check, but best I can tell, you will not receive any notice until you have completed the TWP. You have a receipt proving that you submitted the form, yes?

Completed the TWP... I don't even know if or when it starts! (just venting a bit... sorry) My first year may be 2012 if I could find out the results of the review. Going to be dramatic... Here are the call records of conversations I've had with them on the submitted SSA-820-BK:


20-Nov-13 10:49 AM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 19:43 National
22-Nov-13 4:00 PM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 1:00 Ms. Linda Hibbler
22-Nov-13 3:58 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 0:04 National
26-Nov-13 10:26 AM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 7:18 Ms. Linda Hibbler
9-Dec-13 9:33 AM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 0:10 Ms. Linda Hibbler
9-Dec-13 10:15 AM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 41:30:00 National
13-Dec-13 2:38 PM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 0:09 Ms. Linda Hibbler
13-Dec-13 2:37 PM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 0:24 Ms. Linda Hibbler
13-Dec-13 3:38 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 31:44:00 National
13-Dec-13 2:36 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 1:41 National
13-Dec-13 2:35 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 3:01 National
13-Dec-13 2:31 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 3:25 National
13-Dec-13 2:46 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 7:43 Altoona
17-Dec-13 3:08 PM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 5:07 Ms. Linda Hibbler
17-Dec-13 2:55 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 29:46:00 National
17-Dec-13 2:59 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 3:49 Altoona
18-Dec-13 12:52 PM to 877.385.0643 8NN call 3:34 Ms. Linda Hibbler (Fax)
20-Dec-13 12:44 PM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 1:12 National
26-Dec-13 9:58 AM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 0:45 Ms. Linda Hibbler
30-Dec-13 11:43 AM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 10:33 Ms. Linda Hibbler
30-Dec-13 11:07 AM to 877.385.0643 8NN call 0:37 Ms. Linda Hibbler (Fax)
30-Dec-13 1:05 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 57:18:00 Altoona
30-Dec-13 12:06 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 0:21 Altoona
30-Dec-13 12:06 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 2:41 Altoona
16-Jan-14 10:46 AM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 2:51 Ms. Linda Hibbler
27-Jan-14 4:26 PM to 410.965.3295 WOODLAWN MD 17:03 Ms. Linda Hibbler
27-Jan-14 4:37 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 0:47 Altoona
27-Jan-14 4:36 PM to 888.245.5368 8NN call 0:35 Altoona
24-Feb-14 10:11 AM to 800.772.1213 8NN call 17:22 National

[lenora]

Your situation really does stink. Social Security is so understaffed and backed up you may not hear anything until you get nailed for a significant overpayment. Did you also submit an 820-BK for 2013?

Did you earn greater than $720/mth in 2012? If so, for how many months? If you did not earn $720/mth for 9 months in 2012, look at 2013. In 2013, the amount is increased to $750/mth. Start counting. (I am aware that those workers who are self employed cannot work more than 80/hrs month during a TWP - I am assuming this does not apply in your case.)

After 9 months of "service" you enter the Extended Period of Eligibility "EPE". Once in the EPE, you will be considered not disabled if you hit SGA in any one month. After your disability ceases, you will receive two more months of benefits. Unless you become unable to earn SGA after that, you will remain off the rolls. The problem, of course, is that the onus is now on you to know when your benefits should end.

If I suspected I had completed the TWP and may have earned SGA in any one month there after, I would not spend any of the SSA funds unless I absolutely could not live without the cash. And I would make darn sure that I submitted the 820 for 2013. You do not want to incur a penalty for failing to report the change in your income for 2013.

Social Security Online - The Red Book - SSDI Only Employment Supports