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Old 05-09-2014, 11:46 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,839 posts, read 18,861,423 times
Reputation: 33746

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
You should be ashamed of yourselves. You don't need any lists. The members of your committee should do it themselves without any urging. When the neighbors see you they'll start to do it. We don't have committees where I live; neighbors just take care of each other. Cutting grass takes very little time. You have time for a "committtee" and a message board; you know darn well that you have time to cut her grass.
That's how it is where I live and wherever else I have lived. Normal human decency. Being neighborly. Age, color, marital status, etc. have nothing to do with it--if someone needs help, you give help.

If this is about HOAs that's a whole different animal. I have no experience with HOAs, thank goodness.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: SW US
2,218 posts, read 2,036,207 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
My experience is specific to the Bay Area which leaves me puzzled about some of the responses. We are recently retired and have noticed with the passing years that some see us targets. When we called a company to have our leaky water heater looked at, the punk who arrived just said we spilled water and walked off. The second company replaced the water heater but what we didn't know until a year later, when it also leaked, was that it was refurbished. Repair people that have come to our home have stolen our tools and taken a deposit only to disappear. It also seems the medical community likes to make seniors wait by using Medicare rationing and then trying to sell us expensive tests which we very clearly do not need.

To anyone who honestly helps a senior, thank you. Living on fixed income and not knowing who to trust is a problem for many. It isn't always about just paying a fair price. If you don't want to give a senior a hand then please don't as there is no reason to complain it after the fact.
Glad you brought this up. The elderly are seen as good targets for scams by too many. I too have had places send big service guys who look like they might have just left prison. Developing a way to help the elderly woman find reliable honest people to do work might be helpful.
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: California
4,554 posts, read 5,472,028 times
Reputation: 9608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windwalker2 View Post
Glad you brought this up. The elderly are seen as good targets for scams by too many. I too have had places send big service guys who look like they might have just left prison. Developing a way to help the elderly woman find reliable honest people to do work might be helpful.
Thank you.

People move around so much today that you don't know who is living next door and you are often better not to know, especially when they have a lot of visitors. In Santa Clara they boast about their Elder Abuse Laws but getting them enforced is a different matter. If as a society, we can't give each other a little help then I hate to think what we have become. I have met many in the Bay Area who won't even talk to you unless you have money in your hand for them. They are the ones who are driving up prices to the point that seniors who have lived here all their life can no longer afford to hire extra help.

HOAs have a duty to hire only licensed and insured contractors for their work, which is understandable, but volunteering comes from the heart. Like a prior poster said, the community is a better place because of the seniors who walk the complex and report if they see suspicious people and in general make the place look lived in. A senior with health issues may not be able to be as social as another but that doesn't mean they don't need someone to talk to or help them find a reliable handyman. By the way, where I live a handyman's basic charge starts at $90 so we don't even bother.
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Old 05-09-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,759 posts, read 7,035,798 times
Reputation: 14295
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
This thread is another example of why I don't hang out in this forum very much anymore. It's hateful. Why a poor, struggling single mother, whether she is divorced, widowed, or "got in trouble" as we used to say, isn't worthy of some human kindness is beyond me. Even if she had the child/ren out of wedlock, this is not 1950 when she would have been considered a pariah. Let's see, in the 1950s in the South, black kids were not allowed to ride the school bus. This thread reminds me of that mindset.

And if an elderly person who can't easily afford the upkeep on their house can't get a little bit of help from the neighbors or the community, then this is a sorry commentary of what is happening in this country. If the person lives in the north and needs snow removal in winter and lawn mowing/hedge trimming in summer, it's only common sense that people would help the person out. It could mean the difference between staying in their beloved home or going into an institution.

When I was growing up we always helped the elderly neighbors. If they had needed help that cost money--like snow plowing, someone with a snowblower (shovel, back in those days) would have gladly done their driveway. If they needed lawn mowing, a neighbor (or-horrors) a teenager would have done it for them. Mostly our elderly neighbors just needed some assistance with a minor repair. One elderly neighbor used to stop by to retrieve her home frozen vegetables from our freezer since she didn't have one. YES, she could have afforded one, but she didn't have to buy one because we didn't mind sharing AND it gave her a chance to come over and visit with my mother for a few minutes every few days. It's called being neighborly.

I think the content, and the intentions of the original post has been taken waaaaay out of context, misinterpreted and other posters have read into it ideas never intended by the OP. As such things frequently happen on forums. And other posters have also read motives in some of the comments that it's likely the author(s) of those comments never intended either.

So all of a sudden those participating in the forum:
1) Dislike seniors.
2) Hate single mothers.
3) Don't like poor people.
4) Don't like rich people.
5) Are just plain hateful altogether...

Far as I can tell, the intent in the original post was to state the opinion that if local ordinances (or condo rules, what have you), are enforced, they should be enforced for everyone, with no one getting a pass automatically just because they fit into a specific demographic group. We all know that there are specific instances across all demographics where the folks need help, and IMO it's the right thing to do to help them out however we can. And we don't have to assume that helping a member of one group, or advocating help for that group means that we think members of other groups shouldn't get help, or that they don't need it. Perhaps the OP knew more about the folks he was speaking about, and the information he gave in his first post was in a context that didn't come across in the post. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,839 posts, read 18,861,423 times
Reputation: 33746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
I think the content, and the intentions of the original post has been taken waaaaay out of context, misinterpreted and other posters have read into it ideas never intended by the OP. As such things frequently happen on forums. And other posters have also read motives in some of the comments that it's likely the author(s) of those comments never intended either.

So all of a sudden those participating in the forum:
1) Dislike seniors.
2) Hate single mothers.
3) Don't like poor people.
4) Don't like rich people.
5) Are just plain hateful altogether...

Far as I can tell, the intent in the original post was to state the opinion that if local ordinances (or condo rules, what have you), are enforced, they should be enforced for everyone, with no one getting a pass automatically just because they fit into a specific demographic group. We all know that there are specific instances across all demographics where the folks need help, and IMO it's the right thing to do to help them out however we can. And we don't have to assume that helping a member of one group, or advocating help for that group means that we think members of other groups shouldn't get help, or that they don't need it. Perhaps the OP knew more about the folks he was speaking about, and the information he gave in his first post was in a context that didn't come across in the post. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, you're right that there had been comments made that drifted away from the intent of the OP. Some of the comments were the judgmental type that we see so much of lately.

I don't think I quite "got" the OP either because I have never heard of committees who enforce ordinances with people who decide who deserves to get help. This sounds like something from another planet to me.

(My small town is very very different. I just got back from warning the neighbors and everyone I saw who is out walking a small dog that there are wild coyotes on the loose and to keep their animals inside. A kind neighbor warned us this morning and also reported it to the police. My husband reported it to the nearby campground so that the campers who have pets with them can be on guard. Yeh, I feel like I live on Mars compared to people living in an HOA environment. People here will look out for and help each other--not that some people in HOAs aren't kind and helpful, but all I seem to hear about is enforcing RULES and minding other people's business.)
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:11 PM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,732,531 times
Reputation: 5402
If you don't want ....rules enforced...isn't it best to simply move to a place that has none ?

My opinion on rules is they should be either enforced or dropped.
But not picking and choosing which violator gets a pass and which gets a citation .

We also deal with building permits and variances.
My opinion is a variance should be only granted when there is a good reason and need.

I am tired of seeing every variance asked for by elderly people with money granted because they want something ( I did not say need ) and a variance for the same thing scrutinized and denied if it was asked for in a different part of town that isn't as affluent .
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:15 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,759 posts, read 7,035,798 times
Reputation: 14295
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Yes, you're right that there had been comments made that drifted away from the intent of the OP. Some of the comments were the judgmental type that we see so much of lately.

I don't think I quite "got" the OP either because I have never heard of committees who enforce ordinances with people who decide who deserves to get help. This sounds like something from another planet to me.

(My small town is very very different. I just got back from warning the neighbors and everyone I saw who is out walking a small dog that there are wild coyotes on the loose and to keep their animals inside. A kind neighbor warned us this morning and also reported it to the police. My husband reported it to the nearby campground so that the campers who have pets with them can be on guard. Yeh, I feel like I live on Mars compared to people living in an HOA environment. People here will look out for and help each other--not that some people in HOAs aren't kind and helpful, but all I seem to hear about is enforcing RULES and minding other people's business.)
I guess that's what happens all too often in most forums, when a thread takes off like this one has. People look at messages through the lens of their own experiences, opinions, or in some cases, preformed judgements or agendas, and react to what they think they see in those messages, whether or not what they see was intended by the author. We all do it, it's human nature, I guess, but it sure can mess things up and lead to misunderstanding and hard feelings.

I'm not sure whether the OP was referring to, in his specific situation, condo association rules in a condo, HOA rules in a deed-restricted community, or ordinances in an incorporated village, but rules and enforcement, selective or not, would be pretty much the same issues in any of those places. Those rules are meant to maintain the property values of the locations they serve, through standardization, if you will, of the appearance of the properties and include things like lawn and landscaping maintenance, criteria for external paint colors, roof types, limits on the numbers and types of vehicles a homeowner can park in front of his house or even store on his property, size of sheds, external antennas, it's endless. Some folks love those rules as essential for maintaining their property values and keeping out the "riff-raff". They may have a point regarding the property values, but as some folks can attest to, those rules can be selectively enforced, or abused by those who tend to enjoy doing such things. And sometimes it seems like those rules can supercede anything else, even common sense and compassion! And they can take on a life of their own. I'm sure you've seen the stories about the veteran who wanted to hang an American flag from his balcony, only to be told it was against condo rules to hang any flag from a balcony, it goes on and on, and the battle over those issues can get pretty heated. And the penalties for not resolving those issues can cost the homeowner who's viewed to be not in compliance a pretty penny!


That's not for me either, I've done my best to avoid living anywhere there are such restrictions on what I can do with my property, and I just don't want the grief. So we don't have to worry about what color we paint our house, and don't think we'll get any grief about our landscaping. I live in a small community too, and we also look out for each other, but I'm sure that this is also a practice among the neighbors in a deed-restricted community, or a condominium, and in a case of real need, they'd work together and the neighbors' well-being would take precedence over the length of their grass or the color of their house.

So good luck with handling those wild coyotes, and hope your animals will all be safe!

Last edited by Travelassie; 05-09-2014 at 06:26 PM..
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:49 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,759 posts, read 7,035,798 times
Reputation: 14295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy52 View Post
If you don't want ....rules enforced...isn't it best to simply move to a place that has none ?

My opinion on rules is they should be either enforced or dropped.
But not picking and choosing which violator gets a pass and which gets a citation .

We also deal with building permits and variances.
My opinion is a variance should be only granted when there is a good reason and need.

I am tired of seeing every variance asked for by elderly people with money granted because they want something ( I did not say need ) and a variance for the same thing scrutinized and denied if it was asked for in a different part of town that isn't as affluent .
This must be an incorporated town or village you're talking about then, and for the reasons you mention, I wouldn't live where there were so many restrictive rules. I've never lived in a location like that, but I've known others ( friends, coworkers) who did and they've also complained about the selective nature of enforcing some of those rules- they felt they were on the short end of the stick as far as code enforcement, whereas others, sometimes neighbors, could get away clear violations of the code.

I suppose it's always been that way, with one group or another claiming entitlement to privileges or exemptions(in your example) because of who they were- be it of a particular demographic, age, wealth. I know this is a cynical perspective, it's always seemed to me that most often those exemptions were either related to politics in a local area, or for some reason, those determining who gets those variances, or exemptions from code enforcement would be adversely affected in some way if they didn't, or just plain on who knows who.... it's not right, and it isn't fair, but other than being in a position to make changes, I'm not sure how one goes about bucking this system.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,978,143 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
This thread is another example of why I don't hang out in this forum very much anymore. It's hateful. Why a poor, struggling single mother, whether she is divorced, widowed, or "got in trouble" as we used to say, isn't worthy of some human kindness is beyond me. Even if she had the child/ren out of wedlock, this is not 1950 when she would have been considered a pariah. Let's see, in the 1950s in the South, black kids were not allowed to ride the school bus. This thread reminds me of that mindset.

And if an elderly person who can't easily afford the upkeep on their house can't get a little bit of help from the neighbors or the community, then this is a sorry commentary of what is happening in this country. If the person lives in the north and needs snow removal in winter and lawn mowing/hedge trimming in summer, it's only common sense that people would help the person out. It could mean the difference between staying in their beloved home or going into an institution.

When I was growing up we always helped the elderly neighbors. If they had needed help that cost money--like snow plowing, someone with a snowblower (shovel, back in those days) would have gladly done their driveway. If they needed lawn mowing, a neighbor (or-horrors) a teenager would have done it for them. Mostly our elderly neighbors just needed some assistance with a minor repair. One elderly neighbor used to stop by to retrieve her home frozen vegetables from our freezer since she didn't have one. YES, she could have afforded one, but she didn't have to buy one because we didn't mind sharing AND it gave her a chance to come over and visit with my mother for a few minutes every few days. It's called being neighborly.
Wonderful commentary. It gets so old hearing the same old assumptions based on stereotyping. So many who say such things claim to follow a religion based on the example of Jesus. People who are genuine don't stop to assess the who-what-why of a person in obvious need. They jump in and help.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:55 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy52 View Post
If you don't want ....rules enforced...isn't it best to simply move to a place that has none ?

My opinion on rules is they should be either enforced or dropped.
But not picking and choosing which violator gets a pass and which gets a citation .

We also deal with building permits and variances.
My opinion is a variance should be only granted when there is a good reason and need.

I am tired of seeing every variance asked for by elderly people with money granted because they want something ( I did not say need ) and a variance for the same thing scrutinized and denied if it was asked for in a different part of town that isn't as affluent .
All very procedurally accurate and appropriate. The covenants are in writing to be applied as you state. We love HOA's and covenants wonderful to keep things looking great especially when you sell and have serious bucks on the line. To each their own but decide before you buy.
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