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Old 06-30-2014, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,927,825 times
Reputation: 6716

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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
I'm all for letting adults, which includes advanced age adults, take the chance of " falling, cracking their heads open and dying in their own home".
The problem comes in when they don't die, become disabled and expect to continue to stay at home without the funds to turn that home into an ALF.
You know who gets to own the consequences for that freedom of choice then.
There can be other consequences too when an adult is making decisions with "diminished capacity" (which is different than legal "incompetence"). Like financial exploitation. From the Florida Bar Journal:

https://www.floridabar.org/divcom/jn...ght=0,elderly*

https://www.floridabar.org/divcom/jn...ght=0,elderly*

Robyn
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:56 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Our Adult Protective Services staff tend to be at odds with well meaning private in home care agencies. Well actually two or three individuals, who are Social Type Workers employed by the agencies. Said individuals often insist that APS should place certain individuals in some kind of facility, because said individual might fall and crack the heads open and die in their own home. Often these individuals have limited family involvement (otherwise it would not be an APS issue).

APS is of the mindset that 90% of these elderly individuals would rather fall, crack their heads open and die in their own home as opposed to being placed in some facility "for their own good". If said individuals are of sound mind, of course. APS will work to help in placement of those who are not of sound mind.

On a parallel note, Mrs5150 (an estate planning attorney) runs into the same mindset (placement!) with some adult children, who figure competent, but frail mom/dad should be placed for their own good.

How do you, O gentle readers, feel about this issue?
When an agency is involved, there is often little choice but to remove a person with diminished capacity from the home and find placement into a higher level of care facility -- b/c of liability issues that might put the agency itself at risk.

Adult children often feel the same way and they also should be concerned about liability issues, at least in some states/jurisdictions.

Frail elderly who are of sound mind might be of sound mind one day and two weeks later, they may not be, which is also a consideration. And one's physical condition can change in moments, such a with a stroke.

No easy solutions but in general, I would say that it is best to consider the short term consequences of NOT putting someone into a higher level care facility - and if the risks are low, then continue assessment until such point that the short term consequences outweight the benefits of in-home care (safety, overall health assessment, mental health status, ability to successfully complete ADL with or w/o assistance, etc).
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,790 posts, read 19,895,713 times
Reputation: 23207
Considering all the threads/post from CD members right on here that have said the last thing they want is to end up in a nursing home /ALF, including those that swear they'll 'off' themselves before that point, the opinion appears to change when it's sticking somebody else in one.
There have also been discussions about how useless it is to keep people alive past the point of them having any enjoyable quality of life..Most of us agreed we don't want that.
So. who is it that's being kept 'safe'? And for what?

Please, I do not refer to someone that has lost mental capacity.
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Old 06-30-2014, 11:56 AM
 
Location: middle tennessee
1,924 posts, read 988,935 times
Reputation: 6931
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Considering all the threads/post from CD members right on here that have said the last thing they want is to end up in a nursing home /ALF, including those that swear they'll 'off' themselves before that point, the opinion appears to change when it's sticking somebody else in one.
There have also been discussions about how useless it is to keep people alive past the point of them having any enjoyable quality of life..Most of us agreed we don't want that.
So. who is it that's being kept 'safe'? And for what?

Please, I do not refer to someone that has lost mental capacity.
agree.

this is what I see as the slippery slope of seeking help..... you might find yourself "helped" into institutional care "for your own good".

my neighbor thinks not being found for a while after you're dead is horrendous. I feel the same about being "found" too soon.

its safer being a hermit



seriously


If I'm out in public showing myself to be unfit, take me away. If I am in my home managing in a way that suits me, and I tell you that I don't need help, leave me alone. I'd rather die alone on my bathroom floor than strapped in a geri chair


edited to say that just the idea of being "assessed" makes me mad. lol

Last edited by newcomputer; 06-30-2014 at 11:59 AM.. Reason: had more to say
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:05 PM
 
1,769 posts, read 2,442,342 times
Reputation: 5159
[quote=boogie'smom;35452877]agree.

my neighbor thinks not being found for a while after you're dead is horrendous. I feel the same about being "found" too soon.

its safer being a hermit


If someone has animals who are dependent on them and live alone, dropping dead and not being found for a while is a BAD thing: dogs eating your corpse and the such. I feel really sorry for the animals. So it is wise to have someone email you once a day to see if you are still alive. I have that going on.
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:19 PM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,731,667 times
Reputation: 5402
[quote=LivingDeadGirl;35453034]
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogie'smom View Post
agree.

my neighbor thinks not being found for a while after you're dead is horrendous. I feel the same about being "found" too soon.

its safer being a hermit


If someone has animals who are dependent on them and live alone, dropping dead and not being found for a while is a BAD thing: dogs eating your corpse and the such. I feel really sorry for the animals. So it is wise to have someone email you once a day to see if you are still alive. I have that going on.
I do live the life of a hermit ( a hermit with modern conveniences, however )
All my family lives 870 miles away.

Every morning, between 8:30 and 9, I call my daughter and leave a short message on voicemail.

If by then there is no message, she is to dial my number.
If no answer, she is to dial again in an hour and then call the local police to check if I don't answer.

She is to tell the police where the house key is hidden.

About once a week we talk live on the phone, also.
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,561,360 times
Reputation: 27650
Do laws vary dramatically by state about APS being involved when an elder is physically incapacitated and cannot care for themselves, but still mentally aware?
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Prescott AZ
6,124 posts, read 9,079,067 times
Reputation: 11545
I don't really know if laws vary but I can tell you what happened in Illinois.
My mom, age 101, still very vigorous and prez of her seniors group was getting unable to cope and I lived in AZ (only child). I thought meals on wheels would help her and I enlisted the services of an agency there to make a home visit.
We had 29 hours of home care for her, but apparently not enough.

The MOW social worker, affiliated with APS, called me and enlightened me about the laws that protect elderly. I had to place her somewhere, and it was my responsibility. Mom fought it and made it very hard for us to do that to her,but, in the end, it was a blessing. We moved her to AZ and she was able to spend her last months with us in a very nice ALF (second one. the first one was crap).
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:29 PM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
4,981 posts, read 8,746,889 times
Reputation: 6451
My mom was ultimate control freak.

She broke her pelvis at age 83. While drinking.

Doctors told her she needed to go to rehab for six weeks, do what they told her and she would be fine.

She was not in control and she willed herself to death after four days in rehab. Dr said, "We can't say died from pelvis." I said, "just make it a heart attack."

She wanted (make that demanded) to be in her home, though she could barely move.

That is why I always have one 9mm cartridge ready to go!
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Old 06-30-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
Once you get any sort of agency involved, things can spiral out of control very quickly.

If you don't want to leave your home, then you better make damn sure you have all sorts of fail-safe plans in place to keep your adult children or some government agency (or the courts) from forcing you into placement in a facility. That should include figuring out where you, yourself, would like to move to in case you do become incapacitated, physically or mentally.

This needs to be planned with an eldercare attorney and a trusted friend or family member should have access to any legal documents required to assist with making sure your wishes are followed.
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