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Old 06-29-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,409 posts, read 9,160,010 times
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Our Adult Protective Services staff tend to be at odds with well meaning private in home care agencies. Well actually two or three individuals, who are Social Type Workers employed by the agencies. Said individuals often insist that APS should place certain individuals in some kind of facility, because said individual might fall and crack the heads open and die in their own home. Often these individuals have limited family involvement (otherwise it would not be an APS issue).

APS is of the mindset that 90% of these elderly individuals would rather fall, crack their heads open and die in their own home as opposed to being placed in some facility "for their own good". If said individuals are of sound mind, of course. APS will work to help in placement of those who are not of sound mind.

On a parallel note, Mrs5150 (an estate planning attorney) runs into the same mindset (placement!) with some adult children, who figure competent, but frail mom/dad should be placed for their own good.

How do you, O gentle readers, feel about this issue?

Last edited by Mr5150; 06-29-2014 at 04:42 PM..
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,950,422 times
Reputation: 6717
If someone has all or most of his/her marbles - I think it's for them to decide (assuming they have the $$$ to pay for their decisions).

I'm an attorney. My father is 95 and legally competent. Whatever he chooses to do is ok by me. Robyn
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,409 posts, read 9,160,010 times
Reputation: 13120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
If someone has all or most of his/her marbles - I think it's for them to decide (assuming they have the $$$ to pay for their decisions).

I'm an attorney. My father is 95 and legally competent. Whatever he chooses to do is ok by me. Robyn
What sort of law do you practice?
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Old 06-29-2014, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,624 posts, read 9,698,602 times
Reputation: 11007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Our Adult Protective Services staff tend to be at odds with well meaning private in home care agencies. Well actually two or three individuals, who are Social Type Workers employed by the agencies. Said individuals often insist that APS should place certain individuals in some kind of facility, because said individual might fall and crack the heads open and die in their own home. Often these individuals have limited family involvement (otherwise it would not be an APS issue).

APS is of the mindset that 90% of these elderly individuals would rather fall, crack their heads open and die in their own home as opposed to being placed in some facility "for their own good". If said individuals are of sound mind, of course. APS will work to help in placement of those who are not of sound mind.

On a parallel note, Mrs5150 (an estate planning attorney) runs into the same mindset (placement!) with some adult children, who figure competent, but frail mom/dad should be placed for their own good.

How do you, O gentle readers, feel about this issue?
I would never put my mom in any facility "for her own good" unless it had reached a point where I absolutely could not take care of her anymore myself. It's true, with her history of falling, that she may fall, crack her head and have something bad happen but she wants to be in her own home and she's doing well at this point. I'd say she has "limited family involvement"...me...but I manage. She is definitely "
of sound mind" and knows what she does and doesn't want. She's nowhere near ready for some care facility, thank goodness.

I think the decision should be left to the person whose life it is. If they are of sound mind and can make their own decisions, then I say, it's up to them. Sometimes we have too many social agencies butting in but when you really need them you get the run around and wait forever. If a person is bad off enough that they don't even know where they are, who they are or who their family is, then it's probably best left to professionals for their care. It's always sad when it comes to that though.
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Old 06-29-2014, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,950,422 times
Reputation: 6717
I'm retired now. But used to be an appellate lawyer (I took cases to higher courts - but also assisted trial lawyers in trial courts as well). I dealt mostly with personal injury - medical malpratice and other "accident" type things - like construction defects. My particular specialty was insurance coverage litigation in these types of cases.

Doesn't have have much to do with the price of onions (or this thread). I picked up what I know/think about elder care legal issues (and other legal issues) - just living through life (I'm 66 - my husband is 69 - and we've gone through the illnesses/deaths of 3 of our 4 parents - as well as other family members). From the POV as a lawyer. Robyn
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Old 06-29-2014, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,950,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I would never put my mom in any facility "for her own good" unless it had reached a point where I absolutely could not take care of her anymore myself...
There's a big difference between someone deciding his or her own fate - and spending his/her own dollars to reach that goal - and imposing on family members to accomplish what they might prefer to do. No way I'm going to spend my 60's or 70's being a caregiver/nurse/maid/etc. for others. YMMV. Robyn
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,223,779 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Our Adult Protective Services staff tend to be at odds with well meaning private in home care agencies. Well actually two or three individuals, who are Social Type Workers employed by the agencies. Said individuals often insist that APS should place certain individuals in some kind of facility, because said individual might fall and crack the heads open and die in their own home. Often these individuals have limited family involvement (otherwise it would not be an APS issue).

APS is of the mindset that 90% of these elderly individuals would rather fall, crack their heads open and die in their own home as opposed to being placed in some facility "for their own good". If said individuals are of sound mind, of course. APS will work to help in placement of those who are not of sound mind.

On a parallel note, Mrs5150 (an estate planning attorney) runs into the same mindset (placement!) with some adult children, who figure competent, but frail mom/dad should be placed for their own good.

How do you, O gentle readers, feel about this issue?
I agree that probably 90% of the competent elderly would rather fall, crack their heads open and die in their own home than be placed in a facility "for their own good". And ? I'll take it a step further. My father felt strongly about this before he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and his beliefs have not changed. All of his children support his decision at this time. He acknowledged (after several falls and trips to the emergency room) that he could break a hip, become paralyzed, die, etc. and that is o.k. with him. Probably more than o.k. The key is whether he is capable of understanding the risks and whether he is capable of making a reasonable decision after considering those risks. And the answer to that question, regardless of his diagnosis, is a firm "yes". My father is fortunate thus far in that his physicians and family support his decision.

I've practiced family law and administrative law, including representing the mentally ill in State mental hospitals. Obviously I will side with the parent, especially one who is still competent to make his own decisions.
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,759,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post

I've practiced family law and administrative law, including representing the mentally ill in State mental hospitals.....
Am I correct to assume your background makes you feel at home posting on City-Data? LOL
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,838 posts, read 19,937,680 times
Reputation: 23280
I'm all for letting adults, which includes advanced age adults, take the chance of " falling, cracking their heads open and dying in their own home".
The problem comes in when they don't die, become disabled and expect to continue to stay at home without the funds to turn that home into an ALF.
You know who gets to own the consequences for that freedom of choice then.
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Old 06-30-2014, 04:16 AM
 
199 posts, read 453,262 times
Reputation: 341
You can fall and crack your head in a nursing facility too, it happens all the time.
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