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Old 08-11-2014, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,007,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The post that brought this up was suggesting 20% off meals at private restaurants, 24/7, for seniors.

Most restaurants do not even make a 20% profit.

That was what I was referring to, and I think I also stated that many restaurants have a special menu for seniors only, or a discount if you order b/f 5 pm, etc.

Offering a discount is a great way to bring in business, especially in slow times (as you mentioned) but again, that is not what the post stated. Just didn't want there to be a misunderstanding about what I stated is and isn't reasonable (as well as what constitutes good business practices in the private sector).
Well said.

The bigger thing I'd like to point out is that capitalism is a circuitous system. "The working poor" make the "rich's" life comfortable, and the rich pay for that in assistance programs so the poor can survive. A simple system, so I don't understand the degree of others' animosity toward helping retired seniors in need.

At my senior center I've met two women older than me who worked in cafeterias all their lives, one at a public school and one at a university. Both told me they were single parents left on their own after divorce. One can imagine how much $ they made and what it cost, alone, to bring up their kid(s) on wage.

One worked till age 72, on her feet 40 hrs/week. She now lives in subsidized housing. I have no problem knowing that a minuscule portion of the income taxes I and one of my university-alum kids pay now cover this elderly woman's housing in old age. This woman worked 10 times harder than some professionals who retire comfortably with pensions. We in our society create a sort of pension for the working poor, through assistance. In the end we wind up paying the pensions for both rich and poor. That is, imo, the price to pay for the wonderful life we get to live in the U.S. capitalist system.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:19 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 84,044,795 times
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That is the point ;it shouldn't be governed by government. Its well established that market works best has even the Chinese have learned. Free stuff is never free; someone pays. Too many wanting someone else to pay thru politics these days which could in time lead to becoming a third world country. Look at what it did to Greece.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,913 posts, read 18,921,677 times
Reputation: 33861
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
That is the point ;it shouldn't be governed by government. Its well established that market works best has even the Chinese have learned. Free stuff is never free; someone pays. Too many wanting someone else to pay thru politics these days which could in time lead to becoming a third world country. Look at what it did to Greece.
The "free" stuff has been earned unless you're talking about people who never lived and worked in this country. We have all contributed.

Some people worked as single parents and supported their kids with no child support from the Ex. Some people have battled illnesses so had to spend their hard earned money on medical bills, others had to stop working due to illness. But almost everyone has contributed and when you are too old to work anymore I think you deserve a decent life. Not under a bridge either.

I'm all for something like a special section 8 for the elderly. After all, the younger people have time to work and make money but an elderly person reaches an age when they are just done, cannot work. Why make them suffer? I think a society is better off when more people are happy and not suffering.

In my state, housing for the elderly = housing for the very rich. If you're not wealthy you can get stuck in this state's lovely subsidized housing. It takes years to get in and the apartments are old and run down because the state doesn't provide enough money for upkeep. Section 8 is usually not available unless you can wait 10-12 years. Where I used to live they built Affordable Housing across the street--rents started at a little over $1000/month a few years ago. The people who needed affordable housing couldn't afford it so what moved in? Druggies. Apparently they get paid or something if they are in some special rehab program. The place is a dump. I'm for special section 8 subsidies so deserving elderly people can live decent respectable lives.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:08 PM
 
29,829 posts, read 34,918,975 times
Reputation: 11752
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
The "free" stuff has been earned unless you're talking about people who never lived and worked in this country. We have all contributed.

Some people worked as single parents and supported their kids with no child support from the Ex. Some people have battled illnesses so had to spend their hard earned money on medical bills, others had to stop working due to illness. But almost everyone has contributed and when you are too old to work anymore I think you deserve a decent life. Not under a bridge either.

I'm all for something like a special section 8 for the elderly. After all, the younger people have time to work and make money but an elderly person reaches an age when they are just done, cannot work. Why make them suffer? I think a society is better off when more people are happy and not suffering.

In my state, housing for the elderly = housing for the very rich. If you're not wealthy you can get stuck in this state's lovely subsidized housing. It takes years to get in and the apartments are old and run down because the state doesn't provide enough money for upkeep. Section 8 is usually not available unless you can wait 10-12 years. Where I used to live they built Affordable Housing across the street--rents started at a little over $1000/month a few years ago. The people who needed affordable housing couldn't afford it so what moved in? Druggies. Apparently they get paid or something if they are in some special rehab program. The place is a dump. I'm for special section 8 subsidies so deserving elderly people can live decent respectable lives.
I am responding to your first sentence,
Quote:
The "free" stuff has been earned unless you're talking about people who never lived and worked in this country. We have all contributed.
I am not disagreeing with that statement nor agreeing. I would like to point out that part of the problem is that yes if earned with the exception of SS and Medicare it is clear that the money earned has already been spent. The challenge is finding the current dollars to pay for the programs. Unfortunately we the retired aren't necessarily contributing like current workers are. That is the challenge coming up with the current dollars to pay for what has previously as you note been earned.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,007,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The challenge is finding the current dollars to pay for the programs. Unfortunately we the retired aren't necessarily contributing like current workers are. That is the challenge coming up with the current dollars to pay for what has previously as you note been earned.
We have billions upon billions for bailouts and unneeded corporate subsidies. Need anyone say more?
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:41 PM
 
8,169 posts, read 8,654,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Maybe some things are not available on a national level, but is that all bad? I would rather have these programs controlled by the state or city, as every region has different needs. For the most part seniors do have many resources and nothing is free. Why can't people understand this?

You mention seniors who no longer drive: we are familiar with 3 programs, in three different cities and states that offer free or discounted transportation for those unable to get around. Actually 4: when we lived in Texas there was a community program sponsored by the city: the cost for seniors was almost nothing and they had access to people who would take them to doctors, shopping, etc. The same was true in NM and here we have what is called courtesy van. There is absolutely no charge. Where my cousin lives in So. Ca there is a similar taxi program. You can buy a pass or not really a pass, a book of coupons. The cost is very little. You can use the coupons for transportation almost anywhere within a 20 miles radius , including the airport.

Of course not everyone has access to everything when they get older. There is always room for improvement but our seniors are taken care of fairly well and it isn't the responsibility of the government or the tax payers to give everything to everyone. As seniors we have to understand, if we didn't prepare for retirement (many of us did not, including yours truly) we have to learn to live without some things.
My post was in response to nosnow4me who stated that if seniors didn't have affordable housing options or other assistance with necessities, they should just move some place where these things are available. That is just not realistic or practical. I tend to agree that nonessential discounts for things like movie tickets, restaurant meals, etc. should be at the discretion of the private business. Food, shelter, medical, transportation to procure food and medical for those with limited income is a social responsibility. Some have commented that it is the individual's responsiblity to prepare for retirement during one's lifetime. Of course, they should, but sometimes stuff happens, like Hurricane Sandy who left tens of thousands of people homeless and the rebuilding process has been complicated by FEMA. new flood insurance rules, and banks withholding insurance money. Then there are widowed women in their 80s, who have never been in the workforce, have lived on a single income most of their lives, and relied on their husbands to provide for retirement income. Maybe the husbands did try to make preparations, but only expected their wives to live another 10-15 years on their retired income, not 20 or more, and never expected pension fund scandals, sky rocketing costs for medical treatment requiring supplementary insurance to medicare.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:34 AM
 
29,829 posts, read 34,918,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
We have billions upon billions for bailouts and unneeded corporate subsidies. Need anyone say more?
Yes how much of that came out of current dollars and how much of it came out borrowed dollars with future debt obligation service minimizing our ability to use future current dollars for that time period. That is what debt does to individuals and local, state and federal governments. DEBT DEBT is an illusion of money as it is borrowed against future effort. And we are seeing that now with so much of current revenue going for debt service and not in time programs and needs. How many seniors are broke, have no savings because of previous spending and debt service because of borrowing and not saving. How many seniors can't or are broke in retirement because they are still paying debt service for money used previously? Sorta what this thread is about. It a state or the federal government is functionally bankrupt what then? Do yourself a favor and consider reading( if you haven't already) about the crisis with Argentina and their functional bankruptcy. A NY court has ruled they need to pay bond holders and not retirees, social programs etc. Sorta like Detroit with bond holders getting a piece of the pie over some of the interest of local citizens and employees. Keep playing with Fire America and in thirty years? Hey maybe not even that long.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:41 AM
 
29,829 posts, read 34,918,975 times
Reputation: 11752
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
We have billions upon billions for bailouts and unneeded corporate subsidies. Need anyone say more?
Unneeded corporate subsidies? When the competing nation across the ocean is giving them they perhaps become needed to keep corporations or citizens in the case of states. Again my friend remember money is mobile. We can change banks, investment houses and states that our money is registered in all on line.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:27 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,913 posts, read 18,921,677 times
Reputation: 33861
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Yes how much of that came out of current dollars and how much of it came out borrowed dollars with future debt obligation service minimizing our ability to use future current dollars for that time period. That is what debt does to individuals and local, state and federal governments. DEBT DEBT is an illusion of money as it is borrowed against future effort. And we are seeing that now with so much of current revenue going for debt service and not in time programs and needs. How many seniors are broke, have no savings because of previous spending and debt service because of borrowing and not saving. How many seniors can't or are broke in retirement because they are still paying debt service for money used previously? Sorta what this thread is about. It a state or the federal government is functionally bankrupt what then? Do yourself a favor and consider reading( if you haven't already) about the crisis with Argentina and their functional bankruptcy. A NY court has ruled they need to pay bond holders and not retirees, social programs etc. Sorta like Detroit with bond holders getting a piece of the pie over some of the interest of local citizens and employees. Keep playing with Fire America and in thirty years? Hey maybe not even that long.
I can't get beyond statements like this. Some people LOVE to accuse others of such types of irresponsibility. Very few people are so ignorant and stupid as to not have saved or to have put everything on a credit card while they go out and live it up. Yep, here come the stereotypes--let's see, they get coffee every day at Starbucks, they buy a new car every year, they have the latest smart phones. But that is not what we are talking about.

I think it's just an excuse to ignore the needs of others who are less fortunate. The poor will always be with us and the elderly poor deserve to live in dignity. No one is saying luxury, but dignity.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,007,999 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Unneeded corporate subsidies? When the competing nation across the ocean is giving them they perhaps become needed to keep corporations or citizens in the case of states. Again my friend remember money is mobile. We can change banks, investment houses and states that our money is registered in all on line.
"According to the Cato Institute, the American people subsidize corporate America to the tune of more than $90 billion annually, while individual people on [receiving aid] cost [the country] around $59 billion."

A few quick examples of hundreds of articles on unneeded U.S. corporate subsidies/welfare at the expense of helping the economically poor children and elderly:

Corporate Welfare is Almost Double Social Welfare | Ben Swann Truth In Media

50 Billionaires Receive Unnecessary Farm Subsidies - Forbes


Big Oil, unnecessary subsidies, and the hypocrisy of Congress | NJ.com
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