U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:28 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,188,556 times
Reputation: 2275

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KYBob View Post
And what does any of this have to do with people being responsible for the decisions that affect their lives?

You are making my point. Some people just want to blame their lot in life on other people, banks, insurance companies, corporations, while others look at what they can do to make their lives better.
So many mistaken beliefs are evident in your post. In my opinion, here are some of them:

1. Good decisions don't necessarily translate into economic success, much less a fully funded retirement.
2. Corporations, banks, insurance companies, the currency, the Federal Reserve, etc etc are most certainly contributing to the drastically reduced standard of living that this generation is presently enduring. Put another way, it's perfectly logical to blame these entities, at least in part, for the the collective 'lot in life' of thousands (if not millions) of people.
3. You assume that people that don't earn enough money aren't doing what they can to make their lives better. In my opinion, you couldn't be more wrong. Very few people, especially those with families, are happy to make minimum wage and live a life of poverty.

Do you know what really bothers me? It's the attitude that poor people, need to "do whatever they can", or "look to make their lives better" or "go back to school", or (my favorite) "get vocational training" to change their circumstances. Of course, these solutions are always discussed in generalities and never examined closely for their practical real world application.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:30 PM
 
29,775 posts, read 34,860,277 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
What about the responsibility of banks, insurance companies, and other corporations that were gifted trillions of taxpayer money but won't lend money to small businesses to create jobs, won't pay their workers a fair and living wage, and won't stop sending all of the jobs to foreign nations to avoid paying taxes?
Sorry in the interest of not being a hypocrite I must disagree about your statements on inversion and using such to minimize taxes. Is there any difference between that and retirees with state and local pensions from one state moving in retirement to another state especially for tax reasons? When we do that we are depriving the government source of our pensions of the tax dollars for roads, social programs, education etc. It is dollars out with little return on their investments in previous years when contributing to the pensions. Hey in many cases they are paying our current health cost benefits out of current dollars and we are off and gone transferring that wealth to doctors out of state and their employees and the eventual income tax coffers of our new state. Yes I stand with corporations and their right to do what is legally in their best interest. If our government truly doesn't like it they might try reading about what is called the legislative process after all they did make the rules.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,489,649 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Bada Bing and is this the new mantra that corporations are responsible for maintaining the nations social welfare? Has the individual and now government failed that badly?
Both the individual and the government are deep in debt so we must move on to the next "cash cow".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:33 PM
 
29,775 posts, read 34,860,277 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
So many mistaken beliefs are evident in your post. In my opinion, here are some of them:

1. Good decisions don't necessarily translate into economic success, much less a fully funded retirement.
2. Corporations, banks, insurance companies, the currency, the Federal Reserve, etc etc are most certainly contributing to the drastically reduced standard of living that this generation is presently enduring. Put another way, it's perfectly logical to blame these entities, at least in part, for the the collective 'lot in life' of thousands (if not millions) of people.
3. You assume that people that don't earn enough money aren't doing what they can to make their lives better. In my opinion, you couldn't be more wrong. Very few people, especially those with families, are happy to make minimum wage and live a life of poverty.

Do you know what really bothers me? It's the attitude that poor people, need to "do whatever they can", or "look to make their lives better" or "go back to school", or (my favorite) "get vocational training" to change their circumstances. Of course, these solutions are always discussed in generalities and never examined closely for their practical real world application.
Ummmmmm are you really suggesting that the following are not real world solutions?

Quote:
It's the attitude that poor people, need to "do whatever they can", or "look to make their lives better" or "go back to school", or (my favorite) "get vocational training" to change their circumstances.
People shouldn't try to make their lives better? Wow just wow, glad my family and relatives had a different set of values. I would probably be dead and or on government assistance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,489,649 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Because SO MANY people in this forum seem to think minimum wage workers can adequately save for retirement, and I would like them to quantify that expectation.
Working a min wage job for your entire career is pretty rare.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:38 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,188,556 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Bada Bing and is this the new mantra that corporations are responsible for maintaining the nations social welfare? Has the individual and now government failed that badly?
We could have the corporations give back the 7 trillion, distribute it to the people, and then let's see how our economy is doing in 5 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:38 PM
 
29,775 posts, read 34,860,277 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Working a min wage job for your entire career is pretty rare.
The interesting thing is that most of the stories I see about folks working minimum wage jobs in their forties and fifties who always had minimum wage jobs had some sort of sporadic work history with multiple interruptions, usually caused by drugs, alcohol or jail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:47 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,188,556 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Ummmmmm are you really suggesting that the following are not real world solutions?



People shouldn't try to make their lives better? Wow just wow, glad my family and relatives had a different set of values. I would probably be dead and or on government assistance.
Yes, I am suggesting that most of them are not real world solutions.
Vocational training/go back to school to do what? How much will it cost? How long will it take? How will the person support themselves and their families while they train/go to school? What happens when the training doesn't produce a job? What happens when a person tries a new field, the new field doesn't work out, and they can't go back to their old job as a result?

Of course people should try to make their lives better. What I object to is when poor people are classified as lazy or irresponsible simply because they don't make enough money.

Look what's happened to the USA! In the 1960's a man making an average salary could support a large family and own a house. This new normal is not the result of poor people's works. It's the fault of the rich.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:49 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,188,556 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The interesting thing is that most of the stories I see about folks working minimum wage jobs in their forties and fifties who always had minimum wage jobs had some sort of sporadic work history with multiple interruptions, usually caused by drugs, alcohol or jail.
False dichotomy. What about those that make more than the minimum wage, but not enough to support themselves? In the industry I worked in, an industry that was touted 20 years ago as being 'recession proof', a good worker is not paid about half what they were paid 20 years ago. And a good worker in my field is most certainly in short supply as well. So forget the supply/demand nonsense that we have all been fed as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2014, 03:58 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,188,556 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Sorry in the interest of not being a hypocrite I must disagree about your statements on inversion and using such to minimize taxes. Is there any difference between that and retirees with state and local pensions from one state moving in retirement to another state especially for tax reasons? When we do that we are depriving the government source of our pensions of the tax dollars for roads, social programs, education etc. It is dollars out with little return on their investments in previous years when contributing to the pensions. Hey in many cases they are paying our current health cost benefits out of current dollars and we are off and gone transferring that wealth to doctors out of state and their employees and the eventual income tax coffers of our new state. Yes I stand with corporations and their right to do what is legally in their best interest. If our government truly doesn't like it they might try reading about what is called the legislative process after all they did make the rules.
Who own these corporations? Of said in a better way, who owns the stock in these corporations? Here is a video that gives the true answer to that question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkfMuvVuETQ

The surprising answer to that question is collective government owns these corporations, purchased via our tax dollars. So if this is a government 'for the people and by the people', who owns those corporations?

I strongly suggest that you watch at least 30 minutes of that video.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top