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Old 08-11-2014, 12:09 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,189,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I agree, no rights or wrongs in any of it. People have different needs, and monetary needs, throughout their lives and in retirement. And I certainly agree on the quality of life thing.

The only thing I strongly believe in is for people who haven't planned for retirement financially, they shouldn't come looking for others to support their poor decision if they feel they didn't save enough for it. Though the tide appears to certainly have turned against my viewpoint.
I think those that have stolen this countries economic vitality should be the one's that pay the freight. The banks, large corporations, insurance companies, and the Federal Reserve.
Not the people.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:31 PM
 
8,857 posts, read 5,132,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
What was possible for you is not going to be possible for many. Can you not see the rampant price inflation of college, health insurance, food, and housing?
Of course I can see that, because I pay for all of those things. I finished college the second time only 4 years ago, while simultaneously paying towards my daughter's tuition and supporting my family. Easy? No. Impossible? Obviously not.

Why is what I did not possible for others? I cashiered in convenience stores, a fruit stand, and a car wash. I worked for a janitoral service; I worked in a fast food restaurant for three years. My self-employed endeavors included babysitting, house cleaning, and tutoring. These are hardly elite jobs inaccessible to the masses.

No one is born educated or highly skilled, yet somehow tens of millions become that way. Not one of them does it by throwing up their hands and declaring it impossible.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post

Assuming your premise is correct (that if there is a will, there is a way), do you really expect that that a nation of 300 million people are all going to have this drive/will? What about the people that aren't constituted that way? Just throw them out of the country and let them starve to death? The problem has nothing to do with lack of ambition. If anything, people of today are far more motivated than they've ever been. And they better be, because our collective standard of living is evaporating around us due to economic terrorism, an unstable monetary system that is based on fraud and usury, corporate welfare, absence of the rule of law, fascism, and degradation of morals and reliance on God.
Do we throw people out and tell them to starve to death? No, we don't.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:36 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 1,189,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Of course I can see that, because I pay for all of those things. I finished college the second time only 4 years ago, while simultaneously paying towards my daughter's tuition and supporting my family. Easy? No. Impossible? Obviously not.

Why is what I did not possible for others? I cashiered in convenience stores, a fruit stand, and a car wash. I worked for a janitoral service; I worked in a fast food restaurant for three years. My self-employed endeavors included babysitting, house cleaning, and tutoring. These are hardly elite jobs inaccessible to the masses.

No one is born educated or highly skilled, yet somehow tens of millions become that way. Not one of them does it by throwing up their hands and declaring it impossible.
Neither education nor skills is going to solve the problem of supply and demand. Too much supply of labor, not enough demand.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
Neither education nor skills is going to solve the problem of supply and demand. Too much supply of labor, not enough demand.
Agreed. So if I find that my specific set of education and skills are out of demand, once again, I have a choice. Will I develop new skills which are in demand? Will I pursue education in a different field? Will I investigate whether or not my existing skill set is in demand elsewhere? Will I tell myself it is impossible? It is totally up to me.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Agreed. So if I find that my specific set of education and skills are out of demand, once again, I have a choice. Will I develop new skills which are in demand? Will I pursue education in a different field? Will I investigate whether or not my existing skill set is in demand elsewhere? Will I tell myself it is impossible? It is totally up to me.
Developing new skills in demand is great. Problem is, developing the skills does not guarantee a job. Pursuing different education in a different field is a great platitude, but very unrealistic for many people- especially older people. And again, getting the education does not guarantee a job.

I remember another poster going through hard times on another forum say something that always stuck with me. He said he would gladly pursue a different degree, certification, trade, etc etc as long as he knew at the end of it he'd be able to get a job. Can you say honestly that such a hypothetical silver bullet exists for many people? If so, please tell me what it is as my career is in the toilet as my once 'in demand' field has now seen its wages totally collapse.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,925,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
Drive has little to do with it. There are too many people facing too few good paying jobs, that's the root of the issue.
I think drive has much to do with it. With a nation with a college graduation rate in the 30% or so range as I recall, we have a majority of uneducated people in this country who don't have speciliazed skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
You got lucky that your field is still in demand. You got lucky that you didn't experience a catastrophic health problem or series of family illnesses/deaths that precluded you from getting your good job. You've been lucky that your field hasn't collapsed (as mine has). You want to give yourself credit for merit but without good fortune merit is nearly worthless.
We make our own "luck" mostly. Yes, bad things happen once in a while to people that is out of their control. For those in that bad of shape, there are safety social nets. Too many in my view but that's another story. Sorry your field has collapsed in terms of jobs. It happens often these days. I trust you're pulling up your boot straps and moving on to a field that has a promising future where they are begging for working like in the health care industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
The cost of college is spiraling out of control and grants don't even come close to covering the true cost of most colleges, even state colleges.

In demand is a very transient thing, especially with such a distorted labor market! Again, you got lucky that your field did not become over saturated. There is a very real possibility that many of the fields you mentioned will soon become over saturated. I would argue some of them already are. Where I live there are a zillion landscaping companies all chasing the same dollar. The price of these services is collapsing, for example.

Assuming your premise is correct (that if there is a will, there is a way), do you really expect that that a nation of 300 million people are all going to have this drive/will? What about the people that aren't constituted that way? Just throw them out of the country and let them starve to death? The problem has nothing to do with lack of ambition. If anything, people of today are far more motivated than they've ever been. And they better be, because our collective standard of living is evaporating around us due to economic terrorism, an unstable monetary system that is based on fraud and usury, corporate welfare, absence of the rule of law, fascism, and degradation of morals and reliance on God.
hehehe....wow, I give up! You seem to have an excuse for every situation. All I can say is look back on history on the great depression, which was far worse than anything we have today, and see the attitude people had back then which is far different than the excuse laden list many people today use today. People would take 2 or 3 jobs basic jobs if that's what it took to support their family and work on things to better themselves without an endless list of external things they can't control and focus on the things they can control. And make choices where the odds are stacked in their favor.

I wish you the best.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:56 PM
 
12,705 posts, read 9,975,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Where in the Constitution does it say only the affluent can afford children? Honestly, that's the basis of this argument. To say that poor people shouldn't be allowed to have children is a flawed ideal.
You're reading things I did not say. There's a difference between saying something should be outlawed and saying it isn't a wise thing to do. If a doctor says people with diabetes mellitus should limit their intake of sugary foods, are they saying it should be illegal for those patients to eat sweets? Of course not. Merely that it is unwise/imprudent/risky to do so.

Similarly, it is imprudent for a household making $20,000 a year to have kids. This is not saying it should be illegal.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:59 PM
 
8,857 posts, read 5,132,953 times
Reputation: 10128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
Developing new skills in demand is great. Problem is, developing the skills does not guarantee a job. Pursuing different education in a different field is a great platitude, but very unrealistic for many people- especially older people. And again, getting the education does not guarantee a job.

I remember another poster going through hard times on another forum say something that always stuck with me. He said he would gladly pursue a different degree, certification, trade, etc etc as long as he knew at the end of it he'd be able to get a job. Can you say honestly that such a hypothetical silver bullet exists for many people? If so, please tell me what it is as my career is in the toilet as my once 'in demand' field has now seen its wages totally collapse.
No, but I can guarantee you that if you do nothing while waiting for life to magically be made fair, you will die still waiting. Is that what you want for yourself? Only you can say.
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,574,904 times
Reputation: 27672
The biggest benefit I can think of heading toward your retirement years is to be completely debt-free, including the mortgage.

That's going to be hard for a lot of people, especially younger folks who have a lot of student loan debt, those who live in high cost areas, or those without much income.

The best jobs are increasingly consolidating in urban areas, particularly high cost, coastal areas where property is expensive and increasingly unattainable for the average person. Many interior areas of the country where property is cheap have few jobs that pay anything.

Young people that have a lot of student loan debt or cannot find decent work are going to be delayed into home purchases. If you were able to buy a home and have a stable income by age 25, and took out a fifteen year mortgage, one could conceivably be completely debt-free with a paid for by home by age 40, which would lead to considerably more retirement savings.

One of the most difficult things to plan for retirement is a lack of stability, in the employment market, real estate market, and even government policy. I have no confidence that SS will exist when I retire in around forty years, and I also have very little confidence that most employers will continue supporting employee retirement plans. I think we're going to be completely on our own, but the government is still confiscating the money of younger people to pay for current pensioners. We are unlikely to get anything for our "investment."
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