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Old 08-12-2014, 06:30 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,887 posts, read 8,670,935 times
Reputation: 8415

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
bUU, you can moralize all you want but reality is reality and there is a large chunk of people who don't want to pay for other peoples decisions.
Indeed, it is a disagreement between the moral and the immoral perspectives, the latter supported primarily by those with amoral perspectives. Very true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoProIP View Post
I am waiting to see how much more of this garbage American people can take before they had enough!
This potential future reality is the flip-side of the examples of self-centeredness driving the present reality that TuborgP outlined in his earlier posting. I find it chilling how many Americans are sanguine about the prospect of what you allude to.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:36 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,199,962 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Which drives up rents for the poor and the working class.
Now where did you get that?

I am talking about small town America . . . and I have direct experience with that market and the demographics.

Houses are sitting EMPTY and in foreclosure. Because a senior comes in and buys a foreclosed property to live in, you are somehow equating this to rents going up?

Maybe you would prefer what has happened here in Charlotte, where property under $175K has been bought up by out-of-town speculators, using special HUD loans (and for pennies on the dollar) and changed from private residences to Section 8 properties. Now, that's a solution. Ask law enforcement how this has changed the crime map in my city.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:40 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,199,962 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Indeed, it is a disagreement between the moral and the immoral perspectives, the latter supported primarily by those with amoral perspectives. Very true.

This potential future reality is the flip-side of the examples of self-centeredness driving the present reality that TuborgP outlined in his earlier posting. I find it chilling how many Americans are sanguine about the prospect of what you allude to.
Amoral perspectives?

Easy to take such a lofty, condescending position when one is talking about someone else's money.

Last edited by brokensky; 08-12-2014 at 06:55 AM..
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:43 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,199,962 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Let's say you're in the voting booth and there's a property tax on the ballot. But this is a very special property tax. It's so special that this property tax is levied on rental property but not on owner-occupied homes. What do you do?
Um, excuse me, but . . . I guess you forgot that rental properties are OWNED by someone . . . and that "someone" is already paying taxes on the property.

Specious argument.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:54 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,199,962 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
The states that did not expand Medicaid generally have the most regressive tax systems. These states should either expand Medicaid OR stop soaking their poor with regressive taxes.
There are 50 states. If you don't like the way the majority of folks vote in the state where you live, then find one where you approve of how your money is being spent.

And stop with the hyperbole. About 43% of the people in this country pay no income tax. Of those folks, 14% pay no taxes at all. When we talk about taxes, we also include Social Security and Medicare taxes, and most folks who work WILL pay those taxes, as they SHOULD, as they will be using those systems later in life.

Most Americans Do Indeed Pay Federal Taxes, Including Poor - Forbes
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:22 AM
 
29,789 posts, read 34,889,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Exactly.

I have had long discussions with my friends and family members about how grateful we all are that good citizens from other parts of the USA wish to retire to NC. We should be doing all we can to spread the word that NC is welcoming seniors with open arms.

And many small towns have figured out that making themselves attractive to seniors can mean not only a boon to the tax coffers, it helps with the housing recovery, brings in new residents who are interested in being active participants in the community (and volunteering), helps local businesses. Seniors tend to INVEST in the communities where they retire, if not through their dollars, then through their activities in their neighborhoods, or serving on various local town/county boards, working at the polls on election day, etc -- all sorts of community service. Plus, seniors often bring with them areas of expertise which they will share through community colleges, or through their churches. I know folks who have moved here as retirees and then ended up opening small businesses or mentoring others who have opened their own businesses.

Although we tend to talk a lot about what Senior Services are going to be available to us in any given area we may retire, we typically do not discuss how much retirees GIVE BACK to their communities.
The legislative decision to fully tax pensions hasn't helped at first glance. However in the wash it may work out better for higher income pensioners which we will see next tax season. Also the corporate tax reform seems to be helping to attract and retain business. With so many states recruiting business from other states we have stiff competition especially with other Red states. Fortunately there are states just driving affluent retirees and business entities away to more tax friendly states. Hopefully we are high on that list and it will help our tax base and increase the opportunity to be able to fund services.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:24 AM
 
29,789 posts, read 34,889,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Some valid points there. I still think the core of the problem, though, is the culture of poverty whereby people from dysfunctional homes perpetuate the cycle. And anyone who tries to tell these folks the way they're living is not good and/or they don't want to subsidize dysfunction with their tax dollars is shouted down.
NO disagreement and they go hand in hand and teachers have shown they don't want to teach there. The current administration is in the process of trying to squeeze states to figure out a way to redistribute teachers in the name of legal equity of opportunity.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:31 AM
 
29,789 posts, read 34,889,516 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Indeed, it is a disagreement between the moral and the immoral perspectives, the latter supported primarily by those with amoral perspectives. Very true.

This potential future reality is the flip-side of the examples of self-centeredness driving the present reality that TuborgP outlined in his earlier posting. I find it chilling how many Americans are sanguine about the prospect of what you allude to.
Calling people Amoral only serves to continue the ideological gulf tearing the country apart. It certainly doesn't help people to forge a common bond and thus provide something moving the social net forward. You get in your dig and they come right back with legislation cutting services and taxes. Enjoy but if you think you are advancing the cause of the poor in many states check their legislative agendas. So when the NY Times slams North Carolina and all of my Liberal friends ask me how can I live there, I see the NC legislative respond with something else to tick the Liberals elsewhere off. Water shutoffs in Detroit and this poisoned climate of class warfare only makes some on the other side chuckle and laugh with glee. Doubt it check out right wing talk radio and then call in left wing talk radio and complain. Have a good time and go at it. Millions of others are on both sides of the divided aisle do. How ever those in the middle trying to see the reason and reality of our situation only shake their heads and wonder if our collective future can survive.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,614 posts, read 17,606,575 times
Reputation: 27693
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
There are 50 states. If you don't like the way the majority of folks vote in the state where you live, then find one where you approve of how your money is being spent.

And stop with the hyperbole. About 43% of the people in this country pay no income tax. Of those folks, 14% pay no taxes at all. When we talk about taxes, we also include Social Security and Medicare taxes, and most folks who work WILL pay those taxes, as they SHOULD, as they will be using those systems later in life.

Most Americans Do Indeed Pay Federal Taxes, Including Poor - Forbes
I'm 28 and have absolutely no confidence these systems will be around in their current form forty years from now when I will be using them. As it stands now, I look at these social assistance programs as nothing but government confiscation.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,848 posts, read 19,444,908 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakscsd View Post
This was the wisest man here IMO and I'd do the exact same thing. He enjoyed his life, did everything while he was young and could enjoy it. As we age it simply is harder and for some, there are activities that we enjoyed at 30 or 40, that now at 70 we cant do. He may not even live to retirement and that would have been a shame to scrimp and save for an early death. He took a sure bet by living for the day.
Exactly.

I’m really surprised at some of the things people are saying here and all the assumptions being thrown around. Most people I know that have all their retirement figured out, live some of the most boring and empty lives. I mean, why do people sacrifice so much during the healthy and young parts of their lives for when they are 70 years old or older (if they even live that long).

Personally, I know people that live check to check and will never have anything saved up. They have tried to improve their situation, but life can be rough and most just give in and live day to day and worry about tomorrow when it gets there. You don’t think that bothers them? You don’t think these people know they have nothing saved for their future or that they have no cushion in case of a layoff or other financial emergency?

I myself grew up in a VERY poor family and put myself through college. I had children at a young age and even though my spouse and myself have college degrees, things have not always been easy. I was laid off and my savings wiped out during the recession. Our credit card debt at one time was close to 90k!! Most of which was for renovating a house and taking a chance at starting a business, and yea, we still traveled, went to lots of sporting events, bought new cars.

But you know what? No regrets.

We still lived life, took vacations etc.

Why? Even in our 40’s, we are seeing health issues creep up on us and just don’t feel like doing what we used to do. I am still as active as ever, but I know that in another 10-20 years, that will change. I’m glad we enjoyed life as much as we could while we could. No matter what, I tried to balance saving with enjoying life.

Today we are fully recovered, have no credit card debt, own a home that has plenty of equity etc, have some money in savings etc. I only save what my employer matches on 401k. We have pensions (not like the old ones of course), will have SS and that business I started will probably generate some sort of income till I die. But that’s just it. Life IS short. I am just not one of these people that looks forward to retiring. Why do people count down the days till they retire? I have seen people in their 20’s that just can’t wait till they retire. Really? People actually want their lives to just pass them by like that?

Even though we make good money now, my kids are on their own for college. I will help them some, but I find no reason to just pay for it for them. I don't want to go into debt to help and I'm teaching them that they don't have to. My oldest is planning to do community college the first two years. He is super smart and will probably come out of college making six figures and very little debt because not just blowing 100k on a four year school even though we have nothing saved for college.

I guess I have a different take on all of this. Bottom line is there are way too many variables and different situations to point at people and tell them they are dumb for not having a ton of money in the bank.
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