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Old 08-16-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
Reputation: 27565

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
I am really confused by many of the comments in this thread. Am I really reading that people are saying that woman and minorities had it easier in 1965 than they do today in finding employment and salaries? Career paths? Is this revisionist history at work? Millennials and Boomers include a wide range of people so be careful about comparing fruits when some are apples and others oranges.
LOL..I remember one interview in 1977 where I was asked about getting pregnant and starting a family by a potential employer. And this was in NYC with a rather large well known bank.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:48 PM
JRR
 
Location: Middle Tennessee
3,676 posts, read 2,223,468 times
Reputation: 5213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
You bring up a very good point and one that isn't discussed nearly enough. I call it the 'in my day' crowd.

In my day I worked my way through college and graduated with no debt.
In my day I bought a house by scrimping and saving and now I own it free and clear.
In my day I worked my way up the corporate ladder by working hard and showing up everyday.

Etc etc…
In my day was before we saw double digit price inflation of college, healthcare, food, and housing (without corresponding increases in wages). In your day they had pensions, job security, and opportunity.
Your day has come and gone.
Yeah, everything was a real picnic for everyone "in my day". Not too long after we were married, we decided to leave Florida and move to the Charlotte NC area. I got a job with the wholesale division of a tire company, but my wife, who had a degree in newspaper writing and editing could not get a job. She finally went to the textile mill in Ft Mill SC and they had an opening for a spinner, but didn't want to hire and train her. They figured she would leave at the first opportunity. She begged for the job and assured them she would stay. So they hired her and it was really tough work with rotating shifts. But she stuck it out and eventually moved up to being a checker and then a timekeeper. Still a long way from using that journalism degree.

Meanwhile, I got a new manager who wanted to hire a buddy of his as his assistant. So I'm out and he is in. After four years there, I'm unemployed and not much available in employment at that time. Contacted my old employer back in Florida who offered to hire my back with a salary as if I had been there all those four years. Back to Florida we went.

As far as the pensions; I'd like to know where mine is. We have no pensions. Just the IRAs from the 401Ks that we busted our humps to fund. And that wonderful job security? We watched our financial services company downsize about 40% when the tech bubble burst. A lot of our co-workers were packing up their belongings in boxes and being escorted out. And for those of us who were left, raises and bonuses were not to be even thought about.

But instead of spending our time complaining about how tough thing were, we just did what we had to do to keep going. So yeah, these times are tough but tough times have always been around.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,246,452 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Now going into debt to get what you want now..that's what most people do today.
Economics rule #34...you can't spend if you can't save.
I haven't had a credit card in years and surely don't want/need one. I use a debit card meaning... I already have the $$$ in a bank.

Most of the economic collapse of this short century is due to people overextending themselves on credit of every sort. This is mentioned sometimes but media loves to keep knocking Wall Street and real estate agents with no scruples. They make those who went into endless debt out to be victims...while they were taking advantage of the system. Lots of them walked from houses and don't pay their other debts either.

Only in America.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:22 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,744 posts, read 7,025,154 times
Reputation: 14219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
It's called statistics.

No, it's not an entitlement. Other people (via government) aren't responsible to take care you and your children.


Don't give me your high horse " integrity" BS. Civil responsibility is also being responsible for one's actions first as well, and not burdening others with their own irresponsible actions. Otherwise you're just living in an, and what we have, entitlement society. Expecting others to clean up your mess and pay for it is not civil responsibility. Poverty isn't solved by government or handouts. If it were, we wouldn't still have it after spending trillions upon trillions decades later. It's common sense..."Wait, I can barely afford, financially and mentally, to take care of myself. Should I have a baby (or babies) on top of that?" We have evolved into a society that is always, "Woe Me," and everyone gets a sticker or prize just for "competing." We all have our problems, disadvantages, ect...but many of us don't go around blaming others for it. We just get on with it and try to make our way on our own.

AMEN!!!!!!!! And very well said.
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Old 08-17-2014, 03:11 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,879 posts, read 8,655,358 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
However, liberalism has a weakness and that weakness is that it fails to take into account the fact that there are some people that really don't try and make an effort.
That is utter foolishness. Of course it is taken into account. Just because it is taken into account doesn't mean the sins of abusers are to be visited upon those truly in need. The onus is on society to ensure that those targeted for enforcement in this regard are indeed abusers - innocent until proven guilty. Not just because they're this race or the other; not just because of any type of demographic profile; just based on evidence of abuse by the specific person. When the cost of enforcement exceeds the value enforcement would provide in terms of cost control, the moral person recognizes that the waste is the enforcement, not the basic needs of those less fortunate. There are loads of weak-minded and self-motivated people out there who refuse to acknowledge that critical nuance because doing so undercuts what they desire - a "guilt-free" way of advocating for their own personal interests over that of those more at risk, or advocating for the judgmental callousness that they prefer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Sorry, my sympathy goes to the truly disabled, the young generations today trying to find a way forward in a very competitive world, and to those who have been actual victims of discrimination based on the color of their skin, their sexual orientation, or their gender.
Picking and choosing among those who you care to show compassion, and deliberately excluding those who are the greatest victims of economic injustice just because they share a socio-economic class with slackers, is indefensible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
However, there is a great need to "weed out" the deserving from the non-deserving.
Again: That's backwards. The need is to "weed out" the undeserving from the deserving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
I am really confused by many of the comments in this thread. Am I really reading that people are saying that woman and minorities had it easier in 1965 than they do today in finding employment and salaries? Career paths? Is this revisionist history at work?
Are folks pegging 1965? Whoever came up with that year must be smoking something. The inflection point in most of the metrics on economic injustice is either in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Fully two-thirds of new college graduates were fleeing the state to look for jobs elsewhere.
Because there were so many good jobs elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
It's called statistics.
What you presented were statistics which didn't prove what you implied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
No, it's not an entitlement.
Basic human rights are entitlements, even if we don't like the specific implications of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
Don't give me your high horse " integrity" BS.
Tough. There will be no unrebutted soapbox for disreputable perspectives, such as those depriving others of the worth and dignity owed all people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
Most of the economic collapse of this short century is due to people overextending themselves on credit of every sort.
Of course, most of the economic ascendancy of those who have done well was achieved exploiting the power of the credit other people used to buy what they were selling.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,780 posts, read 19,880,941 times
Reputation: 23202
Worth and dignity are things people have to give themselves.
Without it, none of your holier-than-thou BS... which always comes down to money from somebody else's pocket... means crap.
With it, they don't usually need you and your ideas are geared to depriving them of it, if they did have it.
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Old 08-17-2014, 06:53 AM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,851,819 times
Reputation: 11675
[quote=bUU;36117452]

Quote:
Are folks pegging 1965? Whoever came up with that year must be smoking something. The inflection point in most of the metrics on economic injustice is either in the late 1970s or early 1980s
.

bUU wrote the above and my response to him is that I picked 1965. Why because my comments are in the context of Boomers v Millennial and 1965 is about when the first wave of Boomers began graduating from high school AND or College and began to experience the adult world as workers, family forming etc. Also in the context of retirement that is also the beginning of working life for many of the now retired boomers. So not smoking anything just having a different thought pattern than you. That seems to be sorta common these days.
So continue to enjoy your efforts to influence the world of others and hopefully you are more successful in driving the events of your town and state etc and the decisions being made there that impact peoples lives.
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Old 08-17-2014, 06:58 AM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,851,819 times
Reputation: 11675
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Worth and dignity are things people have to give themselves.
Without it, none of your holier-than-thou BS... which always comes down to money from somebody else's pocket... means crap.
With it, they don't usually need you and your ideas are geared to depriving them of it, if they did have it.
Well said. It appears that our friend bUU believes dignity is derived from the pockets of other people. Self worth is best measured by how much financial worth you can transfer to yourself from others. The dignity of work is best found in some one else having a job and sharing their paycheck with you. We are our brothers keep and the Lord loves best a kept person. The best accomplishments in life come from the fruits of others being bestowed upon you. The way to role model for you children is to have a swift hand out and available to receive etc etc etc
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:03 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,141,087 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRR View Post
Yeah, everything was a real picnic for everyone "in my day". Not too long after we were married, we decided to leave Florida and move to the Charlotte NC area. I got a job with the wholesale division of a tire company, but my wife, who had a degree in newspaper writing and editing could not get a job. She finally went to the textile mill in Ft Mill SC and they had an opening for a spinner, but didn't want to hire and train her. They figured she would leave at the first opportunity. She begged for the job and assured them she would stay. So they hired her and it was really tough work with rotating shifts. But she stuck it out and eventually moved up to being a checker and then a timekeeper. Still a long way from using that journalism degree.

Meanwhile, I got a new manager who wanted to hire a buddy of his as his assistant. So I'm out and he is in. After four years there, I'm unemployed and not much available in employment at that time. Contacted my old employer back in Florida who offered to hire my back with a salary as if I had been there all those four years. Back to Florida we went.

As far as the pensions; I'd like to know where mine is. We have no pensions. Just the IRAs from the 401Ks that we busted our humps to fund. And that wonderful job security? We watched our financial services company downsize about 40% when the tech bubble burst. A lot of our co-workers were packing up their belongings in boxes and being escorted out. And for those of us who were left, raises and bonuses were not to be even thought about.

But instead of spending our time complaining about how tough thing were, we just did what we had to do to keep going. So yeah, these times are tough but tough times have always been around.
My history is very similar. Graduated f/ college into a recession. Worked in furniture (customer service and then marketing/retail) until I finally secured a newspaper job 10 years after graduating from college. I had gone back to get my MA in the midst of that 10 year period, taught night classes at community colleges while working 40 hours at non-career related job, while also "stringing" at two papers. I was fighting with the guys for the positions and there simply were not any newspaper jobs where I was stuck (husband's job). As it turned out, the marketing training proved a valuable skill in my later career, when I shifted out of newspaper/magazine into ad agency. But it was a struggle; I worked several jobs at a time and established my own firm in my 40s. I eventually hit that six figure salary but it wasn't without paying my dues, including 70 plus hour work weeks.

My peers (English and Journalism degrees) basically gave up early w/ the search for professional writing careers and all became teachers, several went on to get doctorates and teach at the college level. I made more money than they did over the course of our careers, but now they are retired with much better retirement benefits and pensions than I have.

I did it my way; no regrets. I had an exciting--albeit angst filled at times!--career. But it sure as hell was not handed to me.
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:51 AM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,574,397 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
What you presented were statistics which didn't prove what you implied..
Google is your friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Basic human rights are entitlements, even if we don't like the specific implications of it. .
Relying on other people to take care, and make up for, your decision making is not a basic human right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Tough. There will be no unrebutted soapbox for disreputable perspectives, such as those depriving others of the worth and dignity owed all people.
What does this even mean? What is worth? Taking money from other's people pockets to put in yours? As old_cold says, worth is something you give to yourself, not from others.
Dignity is about respect and pride, not handouts or other people bailing you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post

Of course, most of the economic ascendancy of those who have done well was achieved exploiting the power of the credit other people used to buy what they were selling.
No one forces you to buy anything. In the end, you're ultimately responsible for your financial decisions. Just because you can get credit doesn't mean you should take it.
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