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Old 08-17-2014, 04:11 PM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11710

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
So now people who live at poverty level and borrow to keep food on the table and a roof over their head are overextending themselves. Are they overconsuming too?
In a world of dwindling resources and limits to livable limits of debt you ask a rhetorical question like that?
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Old 08-17-2014, 06:22 PM
 
26,134 posts, read 28,529,259 times
Reputation: 24854
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
.
While millionaires and Wall Street play with the stock market, most Americans play with CDs, IRAs and other more affordable forms of investments through their banking insitutes.
This is why the middle class will always struggle. I have never had more than a middle class income (some would put me in the lower middle class based on the high cost area where I live), but I have always invested fairly heavily in stocks. You don't need to be 100%, but probably at least 60% during your working years.

Unless you can save 70% or more of your income, CDs will never make you wealthy (and in that case, it's mostly due to the saving itself, rather than the interest you get from the CDs).

"IRAs" are not an investment. You can invest in CDs in your IRA if you want, or you can invest in individual stocks in your IRA. I have Dodge & Cox Global Stock in my IRA. Their account minimums are $1000 for an IRA, which is not all that onerous. They also have a balanced fund that invests in a mix of stocks and bonds, which softens the blow in the rough years. The Dodge & Cox Balaned fund has returned 10.32% annualized over the last 20 years. A one time investment of $1000 20 years ago plus $100 per month in the fund would now be worth $87,654. Not bad considering people blow that much or more every month on Cable TV, cell phones, tattoos, alcohol, recreational drugs, & overpriced coffee:


https://www.dodgeandcox.com/

The biggest problem the middle class has is they are ignorant and don't take the time to learn. They think they should go to a bank to invest, and that's usually the worst place to invest for the long run. Banks are good for banking, not investing in stocks and bonds. But many middle class folks are ignorant of this. You would think people would know better or take the time to learn in the Information Age, but they don't.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,614 posts, read 17,598,460 times
Reputation: 27693
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
I guess you have to "pass along the uncertainty" and wait until the last minute to tell the baby-sitter what hours will be needed.

Of course then the baby-sitter has to do the same to her family's lawn care guy since he can't do the work without garage access, and he in turn to his veterinarian since the cat can't be transported otherwise.

Eventually either someone "absorbs" the uncertainty by setting hours aside for work without using most of them, by employing someone while letting THEM choose their hours with no prior notification at all, or the uncertainty is passed along in a cycle like a hot potato.

Either way surely is bad for everyone...
The thing is that a society cannot function on such a transient, ad-hoc basis. People have to be able to plan their day or you have chaos. This on-call availability deal has only really occurred since the recession, but shows no signs of abating.
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:55 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,884 posts, read 8,668,795 times
Reputation: 8415
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
bUU wrote the above and my response to him is that I picked 1965. Why because my comments are in the context of Boomers v Millennial and 1965 is about when the first wave of Boomers began graduating from high school AND or College and began to experience the adult world as workers, family forming etc.
So you picked a date and then started arguing with contentions surrounding that date? Do you enjoy arguing with yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Well said. It appears that our friend bUU believes dignity is derived from the pockets of other people.
Still arguing with yourself? I never said that. You just made it up. Keep arguing with yourself, and I'll keep ridiculing your evasions.

Regardless: old_cold's myopically silliness about people "giving" dignity to themselves, which you quoted, describes a narcissistic corruption of dignity, which he perhaps prefers, rather than actual dignity. It is not uncommon for the self-focused perspective to fail to understand that that these inherent aspects are to be affirmed in and by others, apparently an anathema to those who prefer self-focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Self worth is best measured by how much financial worth you can transfer to yourself from others.
Self worth is best measured by how much compassion you can practice, not by how much callous disregard you can practice towards others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
Relying on other people to take care, and make up for, your decision making is not a basic human right.
Which is why I didn't say that. You, like TuborgP, seem to have problems understanding what other people write, corrupting it into something easy to argue against when you realize you don't have a legitimate reply to what was actually said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
As old_cold says, worth is something you give to yourself, not from others.
Worth is something everyone inherently has, no matter what you think of them. Treating them as if they have no worth discredits yourself.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,824 posts, read 19,921,769 times
Reputation: 23235
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post

Worth is something everyone inherently has, no matter what you think of them. Treating them as if they have no worth discredits yourself.
People like you will just never get it.
When someone has self esteem, what you or anyone else thinks of them doesn't matter at all.
All you are really concerned with is yourself and how wonderful, caring and helpful you are, whether it's ultimately helpful to the other person or not.
It does, however, make it possible for you to come here and pontificate....do you need this in order to get validation? Have a little self-esteem issue, do you?
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:25 PM
 
Location: in the miseries
3,302 posts, read 3,582,652 times
Reputation: 3810
I just heard its 36%
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:19 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,575,915 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post

Which is why I didn't say that. You, like TuborgP, seem to have problems understanding what other people write, corrupting it into something easy to argue against when you realize you don't have a legitimate reply to what was actually said.
Don't blame us if we aren't able to extrapolate what you're saying. If multiple people are misunderstanding what you're saying, then try to reorganize what it is you're trying to say in a more clear and concise manner. We have responded to what you said, and disagreed with it...don't spin it into some holier-attitude against us because we don't agree or debated with your point-of-view.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:28 AM
 
71,714 posts, read 71,829,507 times
Reputation: 49288
i will never understand why folks bother spending time reading these media pieces of crap about who has less.

at least spend your time worrying about you and learning how you can do better.

a day doesn't go by without some new article about the financial failures in our society which we already know about , doesn't help our own lives in the least and if you feel bad for some give to a charity but rehashing the same old news doesn't benefit anyone..

Last edited by mathjak107; 08-19-2014 at 03:37 AM..
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:18 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,193,442 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i will never understand why folks bother spending time reading these media pieces of crap about who has less.

at least spend your time worrying about you and learning how you can do better.

a day doesn't go by without some new article about the financial failures in our society which we already know about , doesn't help our own lives in the least and if you feel bad for some give to a charity but rehashing the same old news doesn't benefit anyone..
Agree.

These articles might be a sort of "wake up" call for folks in their prime earning years - to "do better" with their resources and planning in re: to retirement, but for folks already at retirement age or in retirement, what matters is each person's own personal circumstance.

The abject poor have a safety net. Most of us will never face true starvation or living outside in the elements 24/7.

The future is unknown. All a person can do is the best he or she can do in re: to savings and planning. For those who choose not to plan . . . they will be at the mercy of those who can provide some sort of safety net.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:07 AM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11710
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i will never understand why folks bother spending time reading these media pieces of crap about who has less.

at least spend your time worrying about you and learning how you can do better.

a day doesn't go by without some new article about the financial failures in our society which we already know about , doesn't help our own lives in the least and if you feel bad for some give to a charity but rehashing the same old news doesn't benefit anyone..
Especially with the market being on a mini roll and new money doing very well and old money again approaching all time highs and or highs not seen in 14 years. A lot of financial ailment could have been solved in the last five years especially for younger folks and those fairly early in the ball game. A lot of old timers have thrived. Many have been hurt by the great recession and many others have prospered. It is the latter who rarely have their story told in main stream media. It is a mixed picture and still playing out for millions.
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