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Old 08-26-2014, 06:47 AM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,196 posts, read 2,865,272 times
Reputation: 4901

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Yep. People left the market before recovery.

You don't stop investing after retirement - we won't. It won't be as big a chunk of money - because we will need to secure our investments - but we will still invest a small amount.
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:33 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,576,686 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
Essentially, the wrong people (those who can't afford children) are having the most of them.
Which, to me, is the biggest complaint I have about everything about our country and our government. A sense of responsibility has gone out the window, a major growth in the sense of entitlement, and that it's everyone's else responsibility to clean up after you. We need to disincentivize this entitlement, and start incentivizing the right things.

Too many people blame about corporations or the "wealthy," but those who do tend to be the same people who tend to be doing the least in pursuing educational opportunities, being smart about money and personal decisions, staying out of trouble, ect. I'm tired of the race card being played all the time, I'm tired about the middle class being screwed in terms of taxes and responsibilities to take care of the "poor," and I'm tired about people whining who are more successful (financially, professional, ect.) than them. Life isn't fair or easy, and we all have problems, but with smart decision making and a work ethic, you can pull yourself up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Actually, I did, and shall continue, to blame you when you refuse to allow yourself to understand what other people are telling you and instead insert your own ridiculous corruption of it.

When people who aren't maniacally inclined to oppose what I'm saying tell me that it needs to be worded different, I'll give it some credence. My guess is that you two are simply trying to make it seem like you didn't understand, simply because you didn't like what I said.

True, though part of the problem is that many jobs simply are beyond the physical capabilities of the old.

Precisely. There's been far too much rationalization of moral turpitude in the interest of what some refer to euphemistically as "practicality". This cynical "divide and conquer" strategy of attempting to rationalize denying the worth and dignity of the poor by throwing a bone to the elderly is part of the cancer of callous disregard I was referring to.

Indeed. Underserving people should be identified by their specific actions/inactions - never by lazy blanket characterization or profiles.

And, no, it isn't the most practical (read: cold, heartless, callous, self-serving) way of looking at things. But it is the human, compassionate, moral way of looking at things.
Thanks for proving my point...you deflect the retorts/criticism and respond in these philosophical, high-brow smug answers.

Life isn't fair or easy. We all have our problems. It's up to us, individually, to take advantage of the opportunities we have. You have a child, it's that's parent's responsibility to take care of them. No one elses. Not the governments, not your neighbor, not your employer. YOURS! You're responsible for making sure he gets the education he or she has available to him...and making sure they go to school, work hard, and stay out of trouble. With freedom of choices comes responsibility--not entitlement. Sadly, we lost that mindset.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The 11 Rival Regional Cultures of North America - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Give it a read and let us know what you think. Might explain some things. I found it fascinating when I first discovered it.
"...It has prized education, intellectual achievement, community (rather than individual) empowerment, and broad citizen participation in politics and government, the latter seen as the public's shield against the machinations of grasping aristocrats, corporations, and other tyrannies...."

This is why I love living in New England. Areas that have "very little interest in equality or public participation in politics" and have a comfortable history of enslavement and reverence for aristocrats wouldn't interest me, not my kind of people. To each his/her own, and I understand others' preferences.

All very interesting, but it doesn't illuminate the social dilemma being discussed (a dilemma that ultimately affects us all financially, whether or not we are part of a 31%).
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ottawa Valley & Dunedin FL
1,409 posts, read 2,357,727 times
Reputation: 1159
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The 11 Rival Regional Cultures of North America - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Give it a read and let us know what you think. Might explain some things. I found it fascinating when I first discovered it.
What a weird misrepresentation. Right off the bat I see that the "Midlands" is the south half of Ontario, Canada, across the top of the Great Lakes into Manitoba. But the region is described as being founded by English Quakers. Which is wildly inaccurate.

Full of generalizations through and through as well.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The fatted calf has been slaughtered and the sacred cows are being rounded up and heading for the slaughter pens. That includes Social Security and Medicare.
But not corporate welfare, the darling no one wants to investigate, only make assumptions about.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wwanderer View Post
What a weird misrepresentation. Right off the bat I see that the "Midlands" is the south half of Ontario, Canada, across the top of the Great Lakes into Manitoba. But the region is described as being founded by English Quakers. Which is wildly inaccurate.

Full of generalizations through and through as well.
I agree, but I rather like the sweeping generalization about my region.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,587,340 times
Reputation: 27566
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
But not corporate welfare, the darling no one wants to investigate, only make assumptions about.
Even they are getting squeezed. Over 25 multinationals have relocated outside of the US (due to mergers/buyouts) since 2008.

That corporate welfare is not inclusive of all companies..just the most favored ones by the government.
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:25 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,891 posts, read 8,677,304 times
Reputation: 8434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
Too many people blame about corporations or the "wealthy," but those who do tend to be the same people who tend to be doing the least in pursuing educational opportunities, being smart about money and personal decisions, staying out of trouble, ect.
A ridiculously clueless and childish response to legitimate and principled repudiation of what you personally prefer. There are many of us who oppose the doubling of economic injustice, perpetuated over the previous generation, on moral grounds, based on firmly-held and widely-recognized moral principles, principles that those who only care about themselves and their own comfort fail to recognize and internalize. Many of us are holding our society up to principles that are different from the "how readily can I climb over other people to get what I want" attitude that has become so common in certain quarters. And that is despite have pursued and achieved superlative educational accomplishment, despite being superlatively smart about money and personal decisions, despite have been fastidious about not only "staying out of trouble" but truly contributing to the community and society through acts to foster consideration for those most vulnerable rather than rationalizing the avarice of those most powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
I'm tired...
Your fatigue regarding the hard realities of the world you live in are your own concern. They aren't legitimate rationalization for callous disregard for those most vulnerable in society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
Thanks for proving my point...you deflect the retorts/criticism and respond in these philosophical, high-brow smug answers.
Thanks for proving my point...you dodge and weave away from righteous and substantive repudiation of self-serving perspectives you prefer, and dodge and weave away from the legitimate substantiation of perspectives that acknowledge society's overriding obligations to take care of the elderly, the sick, the young, and the poor.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:35 AM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,576,686 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
A ridiculously clueless and childish response to legitimate and principled repudiation of what you personally prefer. There are many of us who oppose the doubling of economic injustice, perpetuated over the previous generation, on moral grounds, based on firmly-held and widely-recognized moral principles, principles that those who only care about themselves and their own comfort fail to recognize and internalize. Many of us are holding our society up to principles that are different from the "how readily can I climb over other people to get what I want" attitude that has become so common in certain quarters. And that is despite have pursued and achieved superlative educational accomplishment, despite being superlatively smart about money and personal decisions, despite have been fastidious about not only "staying out of trouble" but truly contributing to the community and society through acts to foster consideration for those most vulnerable rather than rationalizing the avarice of those most powerful.

Your fatigue regarding the hard realities of the world you live in are your own concern. They aren't legitimate rationalization for callous disregard for those most vulnerable in society.

Thanks for proving my point...you dodge and weave away from righteous and substantive repudiation of self-serving perspectives you prefer, and dodge and weave away from the legitimate substantiation of perspectives that acknowledge society's overriding obligations to take care of the elderly, the sick, the young, and the poor.
Are you or were you a philosophy major?

Life sucks and is unfair. Deal with it. Don't have children you can't afford. Take responsibility for your actions. Go to college and work hard in a good degree. Start or buy a business. Manage your money wisely. Many of us believe in this...the stealing from others-those who don't whine, be smart, and are willing to put in the effort-to cover for the mistakes and lack of motivation of others is what a lot of people are against. A short-term safety net is fine, as is a safety net for those who truly cannot take (the truly disabled) care of themselves, as is paying taxes for a few things such as roads, education (though it needs to be reformed), police and fire, courts, and even government sponsored R&D grant programs like the NIH, NASA, ect., but other than that, it's about the personal responsibility and freedom.

Last edited by Wolfpacker; 08-28-2014 at 09:25 AM..
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: St. George, Utah
756 posts, read 885,438 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
A ridiculously clueless and childish response to legitimate and principled repudiation of what you personally prefer. There are many of us who oppose the doubling of economic injustice, perpetuated over the previous generation, on moral grounds, based on firmly-held and widely-recognized moral principles, principles that those who only care about themselves and their own comfort fail to recognize and internalize. Many of us are holding our society up to principles that are different from the "how readily can I climb over other people to get what I want" attitude that has become so common in certain quarters. And that is despite have pursued and achieved superlative educational accomplishment, despite being superlatively smart about money and personal decisions, despite have been fastidious about not only "staying out of trouble" but truly contributing to the community and society through acts to foster consideration for those most vulnerable rather than rationalizing the avarice of those most powerful.

Your fatigue regarding the hard realities of the world you live in are your own concern. They aren't legitimate rationalization for callous disregard for those most vulnerable in society.

Thanks for proving my point...you dodge and weave away from righteous and substantive repudiation of self-serving perspectives you prefer, and dodge and weave away from the legitimate substantiation of perspectives that acknowledge society's overriding obligations to take care of the elderly, the sick, the young, and the poor.


The assumption that those who have succeeded in life must have "climbed over" someone else to get there is ridiculous. Are some people callous and uncaring? Sure, in all walks of life. MANY MANY unsuccessful people care little for others and will readily hurt/take advantage of them for their own personal gain (which might be financial, emotional, social, etc.). This is human nature and is not exclusive to any one social class.

Many successful people have created opportunities for others on their way toward and in the wake of their own success. Many successful people care greatly for others and express that with their actions and their checkbooks.

Many successful people come from nothing or not much, reach success by sacrificing and working hard, and still feel responsible for those around them and help as much as they can.

This idea that the "most powerful" are all avaricious is what's clueless and childish, and prevents rational discussion of workable solutions to the problems created by inequality.




It's also the kind of thinking that creates a whole segment of the population (looks like 31%!) who are able to rationalize the expectation that someone else will rescue them when they have failed to plan. Are there extenuating circumstances for some of that group? Of course. Some have faced calamity and financial ruin. I really doubt that's the case for most. Is lack of opportunity one cause? Of course. In equal measure to lack of motivation, among so many other causes.

And of course "we" as a society will have to find a way to bail these people out, for our own good as much as theirs; and those of us who have planned carefully, worked our tails off, and made sacrifices in the now so that our later years can be stable will end up footing the bill while simultaneously being vilified by others (this has been a fun new development of late--pretty confusing to those of us who thought we were making good choices and doing the right things in life), and accused of "callous disregard" when we ask whether people should at some level be held accountable for their own choices, so as not to encourage further self-destructive behavior in others--in our society as a whole.

I personally care for an actual individual who had no plan for retirement and whose children aren't stepping up. It affects my life and my family's life every day. It is my privilege to do so, my joy. It's not as sexy as you make it sound. "Society's overriding obligations" invariably fall on the backs of those who have made responsible, careful choices in their own lives. "Society" is actually people who do the work while others act self-righteous and say "Society should take care of this!"

I'm taking care of it. You're welcome.

Last edited by Montanama; 08-28-2014 at 11:45 AM..
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