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Old 08-30-2014, 10:50 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,497,588 times
Reputation: 29076

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
never said everyone , i said most! most are where they are by poor choices and decisions which could have turned out different if other choices were made.

it can never apply to everyone.

i could just have easily let my own life drift and stayed in that nyc housing project.. but i always had a back up plan and did shift gears when i had to.

others in my situation did not take control and drifted from one dead end job to another. in fact i still hear from some old friends from my project days. most of whom are still there.
I'll grant you the fact that there are those who over-indulged themselves or under-performed when they had other options. I have no pity for them, just their families as applicable. The bad news is that in most cases, we taxpayers will be supporting them for the rest of their lives.

I'm happy and content not to be among them. I'm sure you are too.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:01 AM
 
71,651 posts, read 71,801,099 times
Reputation: 49241
i made sure every step of the way i did not end up a project rat again.

i was a pro drummer and knew nothing else. but in the 1970's the rise of disco and dj's had me wondering as to whether i would have a job down the road.

so i thought and i thought about everything i could do . i came up with doorman or taxi driver.

so i looked at everything out there and i realized that while folks would build a house themselves or rebuild a car they would not go in to the sealed system of a refrigeration or air conditioning system.

i knew zero about it but i saw this guy on tv in a white jacket from a new school ,apex tech.

well i inquired , borrowed more money from the school then i ever imagined i would owe and set out to learn a new career.

graduated , but couldn't get a job without experience so i lyed.

the rest is history and as of yesterday gave notice that i am retiring after 43 years of good steady work.

so i worked for a company , did drumming gigs and started my own ac service company on the side.

i did everything possible to earn money for saving ,if it meant 7 days working at times i did it.

my story is nothing special. there are folks that do this all the time and they too find a way -the rest just find an excuse.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,760 posts, read 7,041,256 times
Reputation: 14300
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I think the USG has already hit their limitations and are branching out to get even more revenue.
You just have to look beyond the Federal Income Tax meme to see how they are nickel and diming to get more money.

There will be no public debate on this by our government. It's in their best interest to not debate it and just quietly raise fees/taxes on other goods/services. Stealth taxes that you don't know about until you have to pay them.

Here's an example of the nickel and diming going on.

The State Dept just increased the fee to renounce your citizenship by 422%.
The fee went from $450 to $2350.
The US Consulate in Toronto is booked solid until 1/2015 with applications to renounce US citizenship.

U.S. Hikes Fee To Renounce Citizenship By 422% - Forbes
Well, obviously the US government acts as though it believes that its taxpayer base is a bottomless pit, but I wonder if in this particular case the exponential increase in these fees aren't at least partly to discourage people ( especially their tax-paying cash cows) from renouncing their US citizenship?
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,760 posts, read 7,041,256 times
Reputation: 14300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanama View Post
we give to the causes we feel are truely worthy and to the folks we feel are truely needy.

but the rest are not my problem , they may be my concern but they are not my problem.

my focus is my family and friends and the rest of my efforts are in making sure we don't end up part of the problem. as they say charity begins at home.

both by making sure you are financially responsible for your own well being and having a plan if things are not shapping up that way before you reach the failure point..

what do i mean? just watch an eposide of suzie ormanns financial misfits and you will understand.



True, everyone draws a line somewhere. I know some people are actually indifferent to the suffering of others, but I think they are the exception. We all do the best we can, I believe that.

I get worried, though, when people pat themselves on the back for the simple act of being angry at the "rich" (which automatically means evil and selfish) and indignant on behalf of the "poor" (which automatically means helpless but honorable). That isn't actually DOING something to help others, but they seem to think it is. It hurts my heart AND my brain!
The attitudes of some of those folks you mention may be mind-boggling, but I don't think you can change their perspectives, only some life-altering event on their part can do that, IMO. So all you can do is to live according to your own perspectives and values, know you are doing the best you can, and not worry about what those other folks think.....
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,534,315 times
Reputation: 27566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Well, obviously the US government acts as though it believes that its taxpayer base is a bottomless pit, but I wonder if in this particular case the exponential increase in these fees aren't at least partly to discourage people ( especially their tax-paying cash cows) from renouncing their US citizenship?
Well these folks do not live in the US but because they are US citizens they have to pay US income taxes on global income. The US is not happy with just domestic earnings..they want to tax all earnings from anywhere in the world.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:31 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,497,588 times
Reputation: 29076
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well these folks do not live in the US but because they are US citizens they have to pay US income taxes on global income. The US is not happy with just domestic earnings..they want to tax all earnings from anywhere in the world.
Which is interesting since the Supreme Court shot down "source tax" from states in a case against California but obviously left it alone for some federal tax.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,111 posts, read 54,597,263 times
Reputation: 66503
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i made sure every step of the way i did not end up a project rat again.

i was a pro drummer and knew nothing else. but in the 1970's the rise of disco and dj's had me wondering as to whether i would have a job down the road.

so i thought and i thought about everything i could do . i came up with doorman or taxi driver.

so i looked at everything out there and i realized that while folks would build a house themselves or rebuild a car they would not go in to the sealed system of a refrigeration or air conditioning system.

i knew zero about it but i saw this guy on tv in a white jacket from a new school ,apex tech.

well i inquired , borrowed more money from the school then i ever imagined i would owe and set out to learn a new career.

graduated , but couldn't get a job without experience so i lyed.

the rest is history and as of yesterday gave notice that i am retiring after 43 years of good steady work.

so i worked for a company , did drumming gigs and started my own ac service company on the side.

i did everything possible to earn money for saving ,if it meant 7 days working at times i did it.

my story is nothing special. there are folks that do this all the time and they too find a way -the rest just find an excuse.
"Now I can't call YOU..."
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,985,208 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post

I actually disagree with the old money crowd that is "more" understanding and caring for the bottom tier. Old money crowd tends to be pretentious and disconnected, and gets upset that the "new" money is more aggressive and outshines them. The new money just doesn't throw money around or do fancy galas at Palm Beach, but I would argue they are more generous and focus on the results of where their generosity goes. They apply the skills, knowledge, and work ethic to their philanthropic efforts. Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, and others offer a good insight.

I think for the most part, new money looks at the return on their social giving and efforts and how to best allocate their resources with much more scrutiny, where old money doesn't seem to have this same approach.
Not among the many I have known and read about. Old money, secure money, gives to the nonprofit aid organizations in larger and more consistent amounts. Old money is so secure that they don't worry about "someone else's hand in their pocket." They are careful of their money, sure, but they're not threatened by the idea of helping others, nor are they seemingly so vitriolic in their response to the lower ranges of socioeconomic situations. Many (not all) in the upper realm are highly educated in this area as well, and education breeds broader analysis of what some see through a narrowly defined lens. We could have a most interesting discussion on this alone.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,985,208 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
never said everyone , i said most! most are where they are by poor choices and decisions which could have turned out different if other choices were made.
Are there statistics on this to support "most"?
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,534,315 times
Reputation: 27566
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Are there statistics on this to support "most"?
Here's one..50-57% don't know how to manage their 401K accounts.
Mathjak knows his finance stuff inside out and backwards.

Can't figure out your 401(k)? You're not alone
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