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Old 10-03-2014, 10:50 AM
 
72,000 posts, read 72,020,102 times
Reputation: 49560

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Dang! Schools demand cash up front. I considered becoming a self-trained accountant but people insisted employers require tangible credentials before they hire.

That's why I'm trying this online selling thing.
as always , you ask, we find a way , you find an excuse.
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:52 AM
 
72,000 posts, read 72,020,102 times
Reputation: 49560
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
??? I was actually selling stuff and obviously could not continue selling in hospital. One of the big dealers ended up buying it from my boss for probably a song and probably made a pile of cash.
let me sum it up>>>.

G-E-T A J0B THAT -PAYS A REAL WAGE.

stop playing around finding every excuse and means not to. then you ask us over and over what am i supposed to do.

for starters spend as much time as you do here complaining about your situation actually doing something about it.
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,714 posts, read 17,668,720 times
Reputation: 27783
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Many low-wage workers are not able to work into old age my boss used to say that there are no old garbagemen because they become physically unable to do that work. (This was when garbage cans were lifted manually rather than hydraulically)

Low-wage workers often don't have retirement source #1 or source #2. Yet you oppose their efforts to enjoy a dignified life by reducing their housing costs.

...

What about low-wage workers who can't afford EITHER of those things?

Looks like it turned out to be not so easy....
Everything you're saying is completely accurate and true.

However, if you were working as a garbage collector your entire life, you should have figured out somewhere along the line the work was poorly paid and physically demanding, and that you likely weren't going to be able to keeping doing this in your old age, nor would you have the retirement lifestyle you want.

Each day this person keeps going to work as a garbage collector without making actionable plans to retrain into a better career path is a choice.

People who end up in those positions often end up there because of bad actions they took, and oftentimes inaction as well.

Maybe the garbage collector started doing that at 20. Let's say he's 25 and hates it. He sees where it's going, and that's nowhere. This person goes back to school, tightens up the lifestyle, and becomes an engineer designing more efficient waste collection methods. He made a good choice, which leads to higher income, less physical stress, and because of the better income and benefit, the option to save for the future. If the person makes more sound choices in investing, the person can be pretty well-off and self-sufficient.

Contrast that to the same 20 year old garbage collector who takes no action and is broken down and on disability by 50. The taxpayers end up paying for this collector because of his poor choices and lack of action about improving his own lot. This person ends up being an economic drain because:

1) He's not working and being productive.
2) The resources of more productive citizens (taxpayers) are going to fund this guy's lack of productivity. It's an inefficient redistribution of resources from the productive (who could use the confiscated resources more productively) to those who are actively draining productivity from the productive.

Why is this such a hard argument to understand?
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:01 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,121,606 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Why would criminal behavior be an answer? For the record, sugarcoating it to call it "dishonesty" covers up the fact that the behavior was illegal. You OWED the money. The fact that you didn't pay, and didn't know you had to pay, is nobody's fault but your own. Income is taxable. I know it. Millions of taxpayers know it. As my dad used to drill into my head as a child, "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law".

You seem to think that the fact that you had this unforeseen (?) expense justifies criminal behavior. In that line of thinking, theft would solve a lot of your problems. Why not go there?

The probability of prosecution was low; hence the probability of (prospective) employer awareness was also low. As to 'had to pay' that is arguable, because I was in fact an employee and my employer should have paid the required taxes on my wages.

So now my then-employer is a criminal and he skated along on six figured annually.

Why not go there, well, I like to be able to say that I played by the rules, even if i am broke. I like to think there is or should be a qualitative difference between broke people who do the right thng and those who do the wrong thing, even of employers and lenders do not share my opinion. Perhaps I'd rather be broke while doing the right thing than to have a little money while doing the wrong thing.


It worked for him, eh?

Last edited by freemkt; 10-03-2014 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:23 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,121,606 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
Everything you're saying is completely accurate and true.

However, if you were working as a garbage collector your entire life, you should have figured out somewhere along the line the work was poorly paid and physically demanding, and that you likely weren't going to be able to keeping doing this in your old age, nor would you have the retirement lifestyle you want.

Each day this person keeps going to work as a garbage collector without making actionable plans to retrain into a better career path is a choice.

People who end up in those positions often end up there because of bad actions they took, and oftentimes inaction as well.

Maybe the garbage collector started doing that at 20. Let's say he's 25 and hates it. He sees where it's going, and that's nowhere. This person goes back to school, tightens up the lifestyle, and becomes an engineer designing more efficient waste collection methods. He made a good choice, which leads to higher income, less physical stress, and because of the better income and benefit, the option to save for the future. If the person makes more sound choices in investing, the person can be pretty well-off and self-sufficient.

Contrast that to the same 20 year old garbage collector who takes no action and is broken down and on disability by 50. The taxpayers end up paying for this collector because of his poor choices and lack of action about improving his own lot. This person ends up being an economic drain because:

1) He's not working and being productive.
2) The resources of more productive citizens (taxpayers) are going to fund this guy's lack of productivity. It's an inefficient redistribution of resources from the productive (who could use the confiscated resources more productively) to those who are actively draining productivity from the productive.

Why is this such a hard argument to understand?

Ah, there's the rub...THAT person goes back to school, this person can't afford to go back to school.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:26 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,121,606 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
let me sum it up>>>.

G-E-T A J0B THAT -PAYS A REAL WAGE.

stop playing around finding every excuse and means not to. then you ask us over and over what am i supposed to do.

for starters spend as much time as you do here complaining about your situation actually doing something about it.


Remember the part about not having marketable job skills?
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:27 AM
 
72,000 posts, read 72,020,102 times
Reputation: 49560
but this person spent 10k on stuff to try to sell. this person could have used it for a trade school. in fact there are soooooo many companies in all trades looking for helpers and apprentices .

the bottom line is if you really wanted to you would find a way.

just the mere fact you are on line instead of pounding the pavement daily says you really are not going to do anything about the situation.
my entire working career was kicked of by going to apex technical school and borrowing the money from them.

i had zero skills except drumming.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:59 AM
 
15,739 posts, read 9,277,292 times
Reputation: 14228
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Dang! Schools demand cash up front. I considered becoming a self-trained accountant but people insisted employers require tangible credentials before they hire.

That's why I'm trying this online selling thing.
I never considered myself an accountant, but at my current job, they asked if I'd be willing to take on that task. I jumped at the chance, and now I have ANOTHER marketable skill. All without formal schooling.

That's why I have a great job. And well, you try selling things......
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:02 PM
 
15,739 posts, read 9,277,292 times
Reputation: 14228
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
The probability of prosecution was low; hence the probability of (prospective) employer awareness was also low. As to 'had to pay' that is arguable, because I was in fact an employee and my employer should have paid the required taxes on my wages.

So now my then-employer is a criminal and he skated along on six figured annually.

Why not go there, well, I like to be able to say that I played by the rules, even if i am broke. I like to think there is or should be a qualitative difference between broke people who do the right thng and those who do the wrong thing, even of employers and lenders do not share my opinion. Perhaps I'd rather be broke while doing the right thing than to have a little money while doing the wrong thing.


It worked for him, eh?
Oh, so you weighed the risks of an illegal action, and they didn't pay off.

As for "had to pay" obviously you were responsible since you were found to owe the tax. Did you even "argue", or do you just reserve that for the internet?

FYI - you are only a criminal if you are found to be guilty, which your employer was not. Guilt isn't decided by a disgruntled independent contractor with income envy that got caught cheating on taxes.
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:03 PM
 
15,739 posts, read 9,277,292 times
Reputation: 14228
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Remember the part about not having marketable job skills?
Remember that part about having had 30 years and a college degree to acquire those skills, but didn't manage to?
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