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Old 10-06-2014, 04:50 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,891 posts, read 8,672,640 times
Reputation: 8434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
"Collective failure as a nation?" I don't even understand what that means.
Yes, we know. That's the problem.
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:47 AM
 
29,809 posts, read 34,894,042 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Yes, we know. That's the problem.
And that's the other side of the equation those of moral purpose with the knack of turning potential supporters off and making things worse for the needy.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:59 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,087,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we had a choice in my company , close down our manufacturing facility here because we couldn't win bids against cheaper labor or shift gears.

so we shifted gears. we made our castings in china, designed ,engineered ,assembled and tested them here in long island and went on to provide 120 jobs in ny and ohio.

today the tide is changing , labor in china is becoming quite expensive as wage inflation sets in . we are down to about a 5% spread now with china being phased out and manufacturing brought back here in the near future.

folks we buy foreign goods for only one reason , it represents to us the best value for our money as consumers.

a good pair of dress shoes used to cost me 150 bucks. today i get the finest shoes for 80.00.

we are a global economy and each country does something better ,cheaper and more efficiently and to think you can prop up your country because you want to make that product and sell it for more is insane thinking .

our standard of living has been elevated greatly because of the fact we all benefit from the most efficiant ways of making things.

the answer is you need to shift gears today a lot. the buggy whip manufactoters and shoe repairmen are just about gone today as the world changes.

Remember, folks, Quality is Job 1 and the above is why. Quality is why you succeed with a cost spread.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:05 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,205,825 times
Reputation: 22375
MIRCEA: I am shocked my business has lasted this long, too. LOLOLOL

The reason manufacturers moved to Malaysia was totally b/c of profit-taking. And yes, $1.75 would be considered slave-wages HERE in the good ole US of A. That move did, indeed, leave folks without jobs. And it left our country bereft of home-produced goods. We have to rely on imports (and most, shoddily made in comparison, i.e. furniture and textiles, in particular). Folks without work . . . folks without skills for different jobs - which is all theoretical, anyway, as there ARE NO OTHER JOBS AVAILABLE. Go back to school? Maybe. But at 55 that isn't a very viable option. And get training for what? I could go on and on about folks I personally know who went back to school for healthcare jobs (training/tech) and then still couldn't find a job once they graduated. You can train all day but if you don't have the possibility of work when you finish and you can't relocate (often, b/c of elderly parents who need assistance) then there is nothing much ahead but whatever work you can create for yourself. These are real situations; real lives devastated by jobs leaving, plants closing their doors permanently (and selling the equipment). So not like the jobs are ever "coming back" at ANY wage level.

So I really don't give a flip about how this has helped folks in India or Romania or wherever. I have watched what happens to a region when folks lose the opportunity to have a career in manufacturing -- often, a generational career.

And those folks are part of the people who at one time were paying into the system (payroll taxes, income taxes) and were able to take care of themselves and their families. For years, they have had no way to survive but tap into the "safety net." Plus, being out of work lowered their Social Security contributions. They deserved the right to that safety net, but they used up savings trying to survive in order to avoid that safety net. So now, they are entering retirement age without the savings and financial security they were building and were planning to rely on at retirement.

It really doesn't matter how global the situation is when the pain is at home.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:15 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,205,825 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Yes, we know. That's the problem.
No, you don't know. I am not guilty of shipping jobs overseas. This "collective" problem is not one I have participated in creating. The solution, a safety net, is a compulsory one. So, the "collective" is part of the solution, since all productive citizens are compelled by law to participate in taxation that pays for said safety net.

Your rhetoric and continued insistence that somehow our society has failed as a collective in regard to jobs, wealth management and the welfare of citizens is pure BS.

Perhaps institutions have failed. Perhaps government leadership has failed. But the average citizen punching a clock every day has not failed any more than farmers failed during the Dust Bowl years. When your job is gone, and there are no other jobs, that is not a social issue . . . it is an economic issue. It only becomes a social issue when a person needs help to survive.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:06 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,891 posts, read 8,672,640 times
Reputation: 8434
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
No, you don't know.
I'm not impressed with your equivocations. We'll have to agree to disagree about it.
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Old 10-06-2014, 12:40 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,868,479 times
Reputation: 12551
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Perhaps institutions have failed. Perhaps government leadership has failed. But the average citizen punching a clock every day has not failed any more than farmers failed during the Dust Bowl years. When your job is gone, and there are no other jobs, that is not a social issue . . . it is an economic issue. It only becomes a social issue when a person needs help to survive.
...thus its a social issue.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:22 PM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 767,307 times
Reputation: 1761
Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, but over 30% of Americans have no bank accounts period. No retirement savings, no savings account and no checking account. Simply can't afford it.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,563,848 times
Reputation: 27566
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
No, you don't know. I am not guilty of shipping jobs overseas. This "collective" problem is not one I have participated in creating. The solution, a safety net, is a compulsory one. So, the "collective" is part of the solution, since all productive citizens are compelled by law to participate in taxation that pays for said safety net.

Your rhetoric and continued insistence that somehow our society has failed as a collective in regard to jobs, wealth management and the welfare of citizens is pure BS.

Perhaps institutions have failed. Perhaps government leadership has failed. But the average citizen punching a clock every day has not failed any more than farmers failed during the Dust Bowl years. When your job is gone, and there are no other jobs, that is not a social issue . . . it is an economic issue. It only becomes a social issue when a person needs help to survive.
Or perhaps the world is changing and the US is not the powerhouse it used to be.
We are not adjusting and adapting.
We are fighting it and expanding social welfare programs to bring middle class lifestyles to the poor and then call them the "struggling middle class".

This is globalism. First world countries will decline while third world countries will rise and we eventually norm.
And that "norm" does not include a middle class. We are slowly reverting back to a 2 class system.

Over 60% of the jobs created last year required just HS or less education and were low paying.
Think FICA revenue here..6% of min wage.

We're just kicking this can down the road thinking piling on debt will tide us over til we're back to where we used to be.

When I retired my job went to India. No young American took my job to hold for the next 20-30 years.
I could say that for my entire dept of 25 people who are all now gone. Those 25 positions went to India.
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:05 PM
 
71,778 posts, read 71,875,234 times
Reputation: 49336
in gdp dollars we are on track to over take china next year as the worlds growth engine for the first time in many years , since their slow down and inflation issues. we may beat them by 170 billion.872 billion for the us vs 600 billion for china.
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