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Old 10-06-2014, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,985,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And that "norm" does not include a middle class. We are slowly reverting back to a 2 class system.
I can't tell you how many times in the past 5 or more years I've heard or read economics experts assert that without a strong legitimate (i.e., with good paying jobs) middle class there is no economy in capitalism. It's the middle class bulk of a population that buys the most general goods and services. If the poorer classes are shored up with middle class gov't assistance, that may be necessary to keep the economy going (though in an artificial way).
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:09 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,186,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
...thus its a social issue.
Yes, it becomes a social issue when folks cannot survive without the safety net.

However, that is an unintended consequence of the PROBLEM: globalism, and outsourcing of jobs to other lower wage countries.

We are addressing SYMPTOMS in this country. We are putting bandaids on the PROBLEM.

The dependence (and real need) for assistance is a symptom. Until we quit focusing on the symptom and attack the root cause, nothing is going to change in this country, except for a continued downward spiral in personal income/savings.
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:09 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,880,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I can't tell you how many times in the past 5 or more years I've heard or read economics experts assert that without a strong legitimate (i.e., with good paying jobs) middle class there is no economy in capitalism. It's the middle class bulk of a population that buys the most general goods and services. If the poorer classes are shored up with middle class gov't assistance, that may be necessary to keep the economy going (though in an artificial way).
In a global economy doesn't need to be our middle class.
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:12 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,186,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
in gdp dollars we are on track to over take china next year as the worlds growth engine for the first time in many years , since their slow down and inflation issues. we may beat them by 170 billion.872 billion for the us vs 600 billion for china.
And that is well and good except for one crucial part of this picture: we owe the Chinese our firstborn -- for generations.

We have become little more than an extension of China's economy because they own us. We have become little more than a colony of China, because they call the shots with our debt. No one wants to hear that . . . but that is the truth.
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,534,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
in gdp dollars we are on track to over take china next year as the worlds growth engine since their slow down and inflation issues. we may beat them by 170 billion.872 billion for the us vs 600 billion for china.
But in purchasing power China is set to overtake us next year.

Don't forget we changed the way we calculate GDP and now take the value of intangibles into account.
The value of those painting hanging in the WH will bump up the numbers but to Joe Main Street that means nothing really. Taking intangibles into account boosted the GDP nearly 4%.

Italy plans to use illegal drug purchases and prosititution (estimates) to boost their GDP.
Other first world countries are scrambling as well to find intangibles and illegal activity to count.


Sex, Drugs and GDP: the Challenge of Measuring the Shadow Economy - WSJ
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:23 PM
 
2,620 posts, read 2,526,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
we owe the Chinese our firstborn -- for generations.
Actually, the biggest chunk of the National Debt is owed to Americans. Less than 10% of the debt is owed to China.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:12 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,186,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriBee62 View Post
Actually, the biggest chunk of the National Debt is owed to Americans. Less than 10% of the debt is owed to China.
I would have to see that spelled out by the CBO. If you mean - theoretically - b/c money has been "borrowed" from one funded source to pay for another . . . then I guess I could see how the American public was owed trillions . . . since it is tax money that was "borrowed" (or shifted from one budget item to another).

But we owe trillions to the Chinese so . . . your stat just doesn't ring true.

EDITED: Here is a good explanation and yes, I see where you are coming from w/ the debt "being owed to Americans." But I believe further research would not come up with a 90% figure being "owed to Americans."

http://www.davemanuel.com/us-national-debt-clock.php

And I am wrong about owing trillions to China. This article has it under $ 1 trillion and the others I quickly checked put it at about $1.2 trillion.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,592 posts, read 17,582,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I can't tell you how many times in the past 5 or more years I've heard or read economics experts assert that without a strong legitimate (i.e., with good paying jobs) middle class there is no economy in capitalism. It's the middle class bulk of a population that buys the most general goods and services. If the poorer classes are shored up with middle class gov't assistance, that may be necessary to keep the economy going (though in an artificial way).
They are already being shored up to a large degree.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,985,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
In a global economy [it] doesn't need to be our middle class.
There are still enormous impacts felt here "at home." We live here.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:55 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,880,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
There are still enormous impacts felt here "at home." We live here.
Yup, but I thought you meant long term corporate profits and shareholder value.
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