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Old 09-02-2014, 12:44 AM
 
1,196 posts, read 1,800,491 times
Reputation: 785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Of course I am; and apparently it upsets you so greatly to see comments repudiating the way you want to see the issue exclusively viewed that you cannot even admit to yourself that I'm talking about the topic. As long as you are in denial, it is pointless to engage you other than to prompt you to go back and read what I've already said for content rather than continue this ridiculous evasion.

But that's the point, of course: The only way to rationalize the perspective that mathjak107 prefers is to detach the human aspect from consideration.

Because they're human beings.
You have a very twisted, delusional way of arguing for compassion and deflecting the debates by using this philosophical speak that ends up saying nothing at all and always attacking the posters with your self-righteous bull.

Life isn't fair. We all have to deal with crap--regardless of income, background, race/ethnicity, education, ect. I'm all for building short-term safety nets, but as human beings, we need to be responsible for our own efforts and decisions. Mommy and Daddy or the government can't protect and take care of you forever.

Last edited by Wolfpacker; 09-02-2014 at 12:56 AM..
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:23 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,667,778 times
Reputation: 8793
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
sorry there buu, the pity ends when their own determination ended.
It was never about "pity".

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i will leave it to you to worry about the world.
The reason why the problems are so intractable is that too many worry only about themselves and use any excuse to claim that addressing the problem is someone else's concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
You have a very twisted, delusional way of arguing for compassion and deflecting the debates by using this philosophical speak that ends up saying nothing at all and always attacking the posters with your self-righteous bull.
I'm sure you'd prefer to haven an unrebutted soapbox for the rationalizations you prefer. As such, I don't put much value in your appraisal.

I attack the perspectives people advocate when those perspectives advocate for marginalization of others. Meanwhile, you attack me personally. That is another good indicator of the scurrilous nature of the arguments you support and promote in the interest of caring less about elderly folks who don't have good prospects for paying their own way.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Here, There, & Everywhere
26 posts, read 32,082 times
Reputation: 49
It's no shock to me. I'm one of the people with zero savings. Not only do I have no savings, but I owe thousands in college loan debts. With the sharp decline in the American economy, the shipping of decent jobs abroad, and the gap between the Upper Class and the Lower Class becoming wider and wider, it's only going to get worse.

The problem is, most corporations refuse to pay a decent living wage these days and people are living paycheck to paycheck.

In the mean time, companies like Walmart, Exxon, and Kroger are making record profits and their employees are making little to nothing.

Our country and our economy is built from greed to line the pockets of the wealthy off the backs of the poor.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,155 posts, read 26,094,380 times
Reputation: 27893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post

The reason why the problems are so intractable is that too many worry only about themselves and use any excuse to claim that addressing the problem is someone else's concern.
.
And one of the reasons why the problems are so prevalent is that too many worry only about themselves and use every excuse to claim that addressing ( and solving) the problem is someone else's concern.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,246,121 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
And one of the reasons why the problems are so prevalent is that too many worry only about themselves and use every excuse to claim that addressing ( and solving) the problem is someone else's concern.
The problem is poverty in retirement. It is addressed by the Federal Government with the various means tested programs. And that is paid for by taxes which will probably go up as the number of people, both retired and not, enroll in government programs.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:27 AM
 
1,196 posts, read 1,800,491 times
Reputation: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
I'm sure you'd prefer to haven an unrebutted soapbox for the rationalizations you prefer. As such, I don't put much value in your appraisal.

I attack the perspectives people advocate when those perspectives advocate for marginalization of others. Meanwhile, you attack me personally. That is another good indicator of the scurrilous nature of the arguments you support and promote in the interest of caring less about elderly folks who don't have good prospects for paying their own way.
Eh. You're so unaware of what people a lot of the posters in thread are trying to telling you, and when you disagree with them you attack them personally and spin their words from the top of your high horse, that's it like talking with a tree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The problem is poverty in retirement. It is addressed by the Federal Government with the various means tested programs. And that is paid for by taxes which will probably go up as the number of people, both retired and not, enroll in government programs.
Which is going to be financially unsustainable--the young generations are not in a financial position to do so. You can only increase your taxes and fees so much across all classes.

bUU in the quote above, doesn't seem to understand that the very greed that the aging Boomers, and caring for the elderly and paying their retirement, has been brought them on by them. Unsustainable and growing debts, unwilling to make comprises to entitlement program, ect. It's going to hurt when the tax dollars run out to pay for all of this stuff, because it's coming as you don't have a up-and-coming class to keep paying for it on top of everything else.

Last edited by Wolfpacker; 09-02-2014 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:00 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,872 posts, read 12,016,604 times
Reputation: 24661
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The problem is poverty in retirement. It is addressed by the Federal Government with the various means tested programs. And that is paid for by taxes which will probably go up as the number of people, both retired and not, enroll in government programs.
No doubt, and most likely those programs will tick along, or sputter along as the demands exceed the assets and the liberals pontificate about "sharing the wealth" and assume, as they always do, that the taxpayers pockets are bottomless pits.

But what DOES happen when they really do run out of other people's money and those left have no concept of self-reliance?
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,924,417 times
Reputation: 15773
What about we maintain the SS/Medicare system only for those who know or suspect they're going to need it, and end it completely for all those who are doing so well they don't? The former pays in at a higher rate than now, the latter does not. The former gets out only what they have paid in, with the simple idea that they have loaned the gov't that full amt over their working lives and now they want it back...with interest with monthly payouts after retirement.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:32 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,872 posts, read 12,016,604 times
Reputation: 24661
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
What about we maintain the SS/Medicare system only for those who know or suspect they're going to need it, and end it completely for all those who are doing so well they don't? The former pays in at a higher rate than now, the latter does not. The former gets out only what they have paid in, with the simple idea that they have loaned the gov't that full amt over their working lives and now they want it back...with interest with monthly payouts after retirement.
If one figures they're going to need SS/Medicare, it's likely because they aren't high wage-earners now, or they don't work at all, so requiring them to fund it at a higher rate than they do now wouldn't get anywhere, not if they don't have the money to put into it.

I think returning SS money to taxpayers who've paid into the system but now don't need it would also result in quite a loss to the system, seems to me, although I'm not sure it compares to the free-for-all grabbing out of the SS fund by the federal government for other purposes that has been carried out for years. That said, if I were informed by the SS administration that I no longer qualify for benefits since our total income is above the limits of their means-testing for this program, I certainly would want the money plus interest I've put into the system for 40 plus years (and counting) to support myself in my golden years.


So just how would you continue to fund SS, and Medicare for that matter, in a means-tested program?
Would you continue to provide such programs for those who have not paid into the systems?
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:42 PM
 
1,196 posts, read 1,800,491 times
Reputation: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
If one figures they're going to need SS/Medicare, it's likely because they aren't high wage-earners now, or they don't work at all, so requiring them to fund it at a higher rate than they do now wouldn't get anywhere, not if they don't have the money to put into it.

I think returning SS money to taxpayers who've paid into the system but now don't need it would also result in quite a loss to the system, seems to me, although I'm not sure it compares to the free-for-all grabbing out of the SS fund by the federal government for other purposes that has been carried out for years. That said, if I were informed by the SS administration that I no longer qualify for benefits since our total income is above the limits of their means-testing for this program, I certainly would want the money plus interest I've put into the system for 40 plus years (and counting) to support myself in my golden years.


So just how would you continue to fund SS, and Medicare for that matter, in a means-tested program?
Would you continue to provide such programs for those who have not paid into the systems?
Do you believe in moving to privatizing Social Security at all? Even for the younger generation?
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