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Old 08-19-2014, 06:20 AM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,181 posts, read 2,857,897 times
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....or at age 60. I turn 61 in a couple of months..... and I know I need a total knee replacement -soon.

It gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder. Harder than even I thought.

I hope I can hang on to 65.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:29 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,142,944 times
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Originally Posted by things to say View Post
Do you know many older people who continue to work full time until they die?
What they mean, of course, is that they will work until they can't any longer.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,587 posts, read 17,582,380 times
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Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
It is wise to have a retire securely date even if not planning to use it. At that point you can go any time after. Not going just enhances your war chest.
The goalposts can be moved. I'm 28 and I could set a retirement date at 65, but who knows what will happen between now and then.

Had I been my age in the early 80s (where my parents were) and simply bought a fund that tracked the Dow 30, I'd have somewhere between a 16-17x gain. Let's say I bought the same index tracking fund in 1929 - it would have been well into the 1950s before I'd have seen any gain. I highly doubt we are going from Dow 16-17k where we're at now to a valuation 16x that in the next thirty years. I remember the Dow hitting 10000 when I was 13. Until the last year or so, we've been kind of fluttering around that mark. The NASDAQ never completely recovered.

Anything can impact your retirement planning. From common concerns like being laid off or bad health to black swan events like the 2008 crash or civil unrest (which I think we're going to see more of), things we have absolutely no control over can wreck years of savings and planning.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,587 posts, read 17,582,380 times
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Originally Posted by things to say View Post
I don't think the average person in their fifties who says they will work full time until they die understands how their health will be in their 70s or the impact of age discrimination.
I don't know many folks who have been healthy enough to work full time into their 70s. Those who own businesses can often accommodate their doctor's appointments and just how they generally feel around their business to some degree. They have far more flexibility than someone working an 8-5 with limited sick time.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,525,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
The goalposts can be moved. I'm 28 and I could set a retirement date at 65, but who knows what will happen between now and then.

Had I been my age in the early 80s (where my parents were) and simply bought a fund that tracked the Dow 30, I'd have somewhere between a 16-17x gain. Let's say I bought the same index tracking fund in 1929 - it would have been well into the 1950s before I'd have seen any gain. I highly doubt we are going from Dow 16-17k where we're at now to a valuation 16x that in the next thirty years. I remember the Dow hitting 10000 when I was 13. Until the last year or so, we've been kind of fluttering around that mark. The NASDAQ never completely recovered.

Anything can impact your retirement planning. From common concerns like being laid off or bad health to black swan events like the 2008 crash or civil unrest (which I think we're going to see more of), things we have absolutely no control over can wreck years of savings and planning.
But your situation is not unique. Everyone is in that same situation when they start out.
You don't know the future. But you plan and then adjust accordingly when changes occur.

Generations are not really as unique as you think.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,587 posts, read 17,582,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The job market in so many parts of this country hasn't recovered and the sad thing is - it was not good before the recession and never will "recover" as far as there being a low unemployment rate. Just not enough jobs per capita. In NC, we lost our furniture and textile industries and put hundreds of thousands of folks out of work - permanently. So I understand what you are saying, Emigrations.

There comes the time when you just have to face that you have to relocate in order to make a decent living. Otherwise, you will need to hang on and scrape by, hoping to survive until you can start collecting social security. That is not the best way to go into retirement. I know from earlier posts that your parents cannot accept that they need to move away and secure decent jobs while they can, so I hope your Dad's job holds out. This is not the way it should be but for too many Americans, this is what has happened.

We will soon be relocating to my hometown, where I am told employers are still using more temps than "new hires" and also hiring people on part time (I guess to avoid benefits and maximize productivity). As others have said, hard to save for retirement when you are scraping by on part time work.

I think most of us have assumed we could always get a part time job after we officially retired -- "if we want to." And I have known people (often, women) who did pick up part time jobs in years past - just to make a little extra money and get out of the house a bit. Now, those part time jobs are the often the only jobs so the competition is fierce in many areas of the country.

I just don't think most folks are realistic who say they will work "forever." As TUBORG mentioned, even if a person THINKS that, their employer may have other ideas.
The South has been historically bad about generating and maintaining good employment. This runs contrary to the conventional wisdom on City-Data, but if you are young and want to enough to retire, you need to go NORTH or to the Pacific Coast where employers pay well. Live there for awhile, and live cheaply, and then you can move back to some lower cost area and often be without a mortgage, or at least a substantially reduced one. We had a poster on the Tri-Cities, TN boards wanting to come from San Diego, where he was a unionized iron worker making $85k, to east TN where he'd make less than half that, if he could secure a job at all. The TN boards get dozens of posts like that where someone is coming from a wealthy coastal area to and thinking they can "make it" because things are "cheap" down South. I am a Republican and politically agree with most Southerners, but financially, it often makes no sense to work there.

Also, it gives the employee more bargaining power if their salary is already at a high level to keep that salary in a low cost area, rather than being in a very low paying area (take rural NC) and trying to move up to the prevailing wage in a normal area (Raleigh or Charlotte). A job may pay $80k in Boston, $60k in Charlotte, but only $30k in rural NC. The person coming from Boston may keep their $80k (or still be above the local prevailing wage of $60k), whereas the person coming rural NC may get lowballed for $45k (way more than they were making and what they'll probably accept, but still below market rate). Once in a hole like that, it often takes several job hops to get out of unless you just get lucky.

The median household income in my hometown as of 2010 census is $30,500. HALF are below that pitiful number. More than half of the households are going to have a hard time keeping gas in the car, food on the table, and a roof over their head, much less save anything for retirement. Many are already on some kind of assistance and will be in perpetuity. My parents make slightly more than double that, and while things would be better if they filled some leaky holes in the budget (they love to eat out, he smokes MJ, she does more shopping than needed, etc), there still isn't a lot there by the time you count buying, maintaining, fueling, and insuring two decent vehicles (a Camry and Corolla), his three hundred miles of commuting a week, the mortgage and upkeep on the older home (since 1997, we've been through two sets of flooring, two roofs, two heat pumps, three fridges, probably half a dozen riding mowers, push mowers, and weed eaters, a septic tank, etc), income taxes to Virginia (he works there, but doesn't live there) and just general expenses. There are lots of folks where he works much worse off than he is. Throw a couple of kids onto that median HHI, and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,587 posts, read 17,582,380 times
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Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
But your situation is not unique. Everyone is in that same situation when they start out.
You don't know the future. But you plan and then adjust accordingly when changes occur.

Generations are not really as unique as you think.
No one knows the future, but I think there is a good argument to be made that life is far more transient and temporary than it used to be.

My grandfather was only HS educated and my grandmother didn't finish HS. He worked as a butcher for fifteen years or so then got on at the chemical factory, worked there twenty years or so, with a full pension. Grandmother worked as a cook at the school system, also retiring with a government pension. They never had to contend with traipsing about the country to find work. Hell, they never even dealt with a job change. He was retired well over fifteen years at the time of his death and she's been retired for almost twenty.

The other grandfather is a multiple felon and alcoholic, but he was always handy with fixing things and kept himself afloat by repairing appliances. Grandmother did all sorts of odd jobs. He'd never get a job today with his criminal record, but years ago, it wasn't such an issue. The house has been paid off for years and they have around a quarter million banked. It doesn't seem like a lot, but for a guy with a felony theft conviction and a dozen DUIs, it isn't bad.

I went to college, have around 150 credit hours, have lived in five states since 2012, and am just now finally getting onto what I'd consider relatively solid ground with some upward mobility. I'll probably have to move again at some point. It's taken me until 28 to achieve what they did at probably 20, with a lot more education and time out of the labor market, and I still don't have a pension or any confidence that things will remain as stable as they are now for long.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,618 posts, read 9,687,274 times
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Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I believe people mean it (that they will never retire) at the time they say it. But, there's a big difference between the ones who can retire and won't because they don't know how to do anything else, the ones that go back to work because they don't know how to do anything else and the ones who can't retire because they either didn't plan for it financially or unexpected money circumstances prevent them from retiring.

I'm usually amazed at the people who never planned for their actual life after retirement. Those are the ones that planned financially but can't figure out what to do with themselves and wind up going back to work. It seems like they have some vague idea about doing something they think retirees are supposed to do when work stops but they don't put a whole lot of thought into it or at least as much thought as they put into saving for retirement. Then they denounce retirement to cover up for their mistake.

I don't know what people do who have physical jobs and can't retire. What do movers do, for example? How do 70 year old cashiers or waitresses stand on their feet all day? What do 70+ year old people do who climb telephone poles, trim trees, pick up garbage cans or build houses? Do you know a lot of them?
I waitressed till I was 67. Now I'm a cashier at 71...very soon to be 72. You just DO it. Luckily for me I am small, energetic and in excellent health. I work with quite a few people over 70 and one lady is 84. I get really tired and it's a stressful job sometimes but I LIKE doing it so it's no hardship.

My ex really messed up my retirement plans. I had NO plans of not being married anymore at my age and I've been divorced since I was 54. Waitressing isn't a great job to save money but it's good for supporting someone while they are doing it. I guess I can be accused of not "planning" well enough but what is, is and I just have to live with it. I'll never be able to retire. Not because I love working because I don't but I'm lucky that I like what I do, which helps. I joke that I'll probably drop dead at my cash register and who knows? I just might!

I have enough in savings to live pretty well for about a year and a half but then I'd be 'broke' again and just have to go back to work again. Sigh...
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:53 AM
 
5,397 posts, read 6,538,749 times
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
What they mean, of course, is that they will work until they can't any longer.
exactly

my ex is one of those. He loves to work, he is a workaholic, or whatever you call it, and he will work until he cannot. It isn't the money, he has plenty. He just can't not work. He can't even take an easy vacation and never could.

Last time I saw him he could barely walk across the room and the doctors were talking heart efficiency and heart transplant. He, for once listened to the doctor, and the kids say he is getting better.

He is 64 and has always been in the peak of physical capability beyond most people's capabilities, in fact he was a Green Beret during VietNam. Ill health is something he sees as one more challenge to overcome. So he works, his life is work, and he is happy with that.

His grandmother worked in a manufacturing plant until she was 92 and they made her leave most unwillingly. She mowed lawns thereafter. His mother quit work "too early" at 60 and lived the life of a retiree (of which he didn't approve the non working) and passed away at 94.

I expect he will be working until his 90s or whenever.

So yes, there are some people who live to work and they know it. Just who they are.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,525,560 times
Reputation: 27566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
The South has been historically bad about generating and maintaining good employment. This runs contrary to the conventional wisdom on City-Data, but if you are young and want to enough to retire, you need to go NORTH or to the Pacific Coast where employers pay well. Live there for awhile, and live cheaply, and then you can move back to some lower cost area and often be without a mortgage, or at least a substantially reduced one. We had a poster on the Tri-Cities, TN boards wanting to come from San Diego, where he was a unionized iron worker making $85k, to east TN where he'd make less than half that, if he could secure a job at all. The TN boards get dozens of posts like that where someone is coming from a wealthy coastal area to and thinking they can "make it" because things are "cheap" down South. I am a Republican and politically agree with most Southerners, but financially, it often makes no sense to work there.
I respectfully disagree. My entire working career has been in Florida and Texas.
I left NYC because the COL was higher than the higher pay.

It's not how much you make..it's how much you get to keep.
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