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Old 01-10-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Full time in the RV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you can get great advice and work ups here but correct anwers are rarely free.

Get Your Solution
This looks like money well spent.

The FAQs are informative.

I am going to use this type of service when I get closer (I am 52 now).
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:43 PM
 
2,429 posts, read 3,227,010 times
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Because of this "first year rule" BS -- is a person better off NOT working the first year they get their SS benefits? Would that be "simpler?"

Let's say you plan to live the first year of SS benefits only pulling from retirement accounts or with a pension. That's not the figure they're asking about right? So could you say I wont' be working this year.

If they ask what your "income" will be....or how much you'll "make" his year. Just say you won't be working. Its' the truth.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,542 posts, read 44,050,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
but t.rowe looked at the fact most of us who are not professionals who start their careers near the highest tax brackets, we the working stiffs typically spend decades ramping up in income and tax brackets.

you may have spent the first 25 years of a 40 year career at much lower brackets and income than those later years.
For the most part I don't fit the TRP profile. That said, lol, I may be the exception that proves TRP's rule. Never paid much in the way of taxes when I worked because I maximized tax-deferred accounts - and pay no taxes now. The Roth conversion may result in a small 10% hit on a part of it, but that's minimal. Any conversions are done with a ceiling of 10% tax, no more, and not even that if I can help it. Another advantage to the Roth conversions, of course, is the side effect of lowering the amount subject to RMD in future should the day come I no longer have the Schedule E writeoffs I do today which, for now, keep my taxes pretty much at zero.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 01-10-2015 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:00 AM
 
71 posts, read 64,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed303 View Post
SSA tries to explain the "special first year rule" on page 6 of this SSA publication :
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10069.pdf It is a 2014 document.

It is convoluted. ISTM if you asked 5 people, you could get 6 interpretations, all of which could be correct, just explained different.
Thanks much for this document link!
+ given!

It does appear from the above document that the limit on how much you can make the 1st year of getting social security if you are not at full retirement age yet is $1310 A MONTH, not 12x $1310 = $15,720/year. (which is the supposed exemption amount for 2015).

It does not explain how or where they got this, though, which is what I would like to know.

This is some kind of supplementary document, it would appear, that is explaining some scenarios in laymen's terms (as much as Social Security Dept is capable of that, which is to say "not very").
So my question is, where is the rule/regulation that they got this from regarding the 1st year exemption of $15,720 annual earned income not being the real exemption but rather $1310 a MONTH being the exemption amount that counts?

In other words as the above document states it, if you make less than $15,720 a year (say, by working the first 6 months but then quitting your job), you still cannot collect social security during those 1st 6 months because you are making more than $1310 / month even though you are NOT making more than $15,720/ year.

I don't see why or how or where they came up with this, but the above document does seem to be saying that.

Am I right or am I wrong?
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:02 AM
 
71 posts, read 64,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdflk View Post
Because of this "first year rule" BS -- is a person better off NOT working the first year they get their SS benefits? Would that be "simpler?"

Let's say you plan to live the first year of SS benefits only pulling from retirement accounts or with a pension. That's not the figure they're asking about right? So could you say I wont' be working this year.

If they ask what your "income" will be....or how much you'll "make" his year. Just say you won't be working. Its' the truth.
Yes, I was told that only EARNED income counts against you, not savings or profit from investments etc. - only EARNED income. (I'm NOT an expert by any means, but this is what I was told by someone who supposedly is.)

It's not that you can't work, it's just that you can only make $1310 or less PER MONTH for the first year, starting in 2015, if you are not at full retirement age in 2015.
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:39 AM
 
2,429 posts, read 3,227,010 times
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Quote:
I will borrow money (0%, 1-2% balance transfer fee) before I will withdraw more than an RMD from a tax-deferred IRA which withdrawal always creates a taxable event and could very well result in a tax hit against my SS benefits.
Oh....never thought about that ...interesting. I have to think that over and do the math on that.
....except try to find zero transfer fee arrangement...they're hard to find but out there and available to some.

Quote:
In other words as the above document states it, if you make less than $15,720 a year (say, by working the first 6 months but then quitting your job), you still cannot collect social security during those 1st 6 months because you are making more than $1310 / month even though you are NOT making more than $15,720/ year.
I'm confused... you said you still cannot collect social security during those 1st 6 months . Did you mean that...as in if you make to much you an't even COLLECT ANY Soc Sec.

I thought you COULD actually make whatever you want....BUT -- 1) you'd face the earning offset where they keep a dollar from you for every two you make (over a certain amount) (to be put back in your Soc Sec. pot and recalculated for you later) ...and 2) your SS would just be taxed. I didn't know there was an income limit on whether you could even COLLECT.

Last edited by rdflk; 02-20-2015 at 10:54 AM..
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,852,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdflk View Post
Oh....never thought about that ...interesting. I have to think that over and do the math on that.
....except try to find zero transfer fee arrangement...they're hard to find but out there and available to some.



I'm confused... you said you still cannot collect social security during those 1st 6 months . Did you mean that...as in if you make to much you an't even COLLECT ANY Soc Sec.

I thought you COULD actually make whatever you want....BUT -- 1) you'd face the earning offset where they keep a dollar from you for every two you make (over a certain amount) (to be put back in your Soc Sec. pot and recalculated for you later) ...and 2) your SS would just be taxed. I didn't know there was an income limit on whether you could even COLLECT.
You are right. No one can tell you not to work. But if you are working and dont need the SS income then you should not take it at 62. You should if you can wait until FRA before filing.
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:29 PM
 
71 posts, read 64,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdflk View Post
Oh....never thought about that ...interesting. I have to think that over and do the math on that.
....except try to find zero transfer fee arrangement...they're hard to find but out there and available to some.



I'm confused... you said you still cannot collect social security during those 1st 6 months . Did you mean that...as in if you make to much you an't even COLLECT ANY Soc Sec.

I thought you COULD actually make whatever you want....BUT -- 1) you'd face the earning offset where they keep a dollar from you for every two you make (over a certain amount) (to be put back in your Soc Sec. pot and recalculated for you later) ...and 2) your SS would just be taxed. I didn't know there was an income limit on whether you could even COLLECT.
Hi, don't go by me or my posts. I am just trying to understand this incredibly hard to understand situation. That is, it's easy enough to understand - but very hard to find confirmation of exactly what the law IS regarding first year collection of Social Security while also working that first year (or in my case, first 6 months).

As I understand it, the first year you collect has different rules re working during that first year if you are not yet of full retirement age nor will reach it during the first year.

Normally you can work and pay (reduce your benefit) the 1/2 $ amount over the exemption (the exemption is now $15,720 in 2015).
But as I have been told, if I work and make more than $15,720 divided by 12 or $1310/month, in any month, then I get zip for those months. Apparently (?) this is then added back to my account later (the next year, or when I reach 65, can't remember when), but that doesn't help me survive the first year.

I was told this by an expert but when I ask "where is the law or Social Security policy that explains this?" I just get pointed to documents that dance around it.

As to whether it's better not to work the 1st year, I think it's fine - even according to the as yet unproven (to me) policy, as long as you make less than $1310/month. The question is: if you make more than $1310/month can you still get ANY social security that first year ? I am told the answer is NO. (But I want to see proof.)

Let me use this as an excuse to rant a bit about the Social Security web site:

It SUCKS!!! I can't say it strongly enough. I know that even the experts have trouble finding the laws/regulations (whatever they are) that state how some things are determined.

It's as if they are writing their pages (with all the acronyms, etc) in such a way as to make it as hard as possible for a person of average intelligence (or even a higher intelligence person, like myself ;-D ) to understand what the rules are.

What they should do is provide a lot of examples to fit almost all cases and then have a good search engine and categorization of information to find the examples that fit your case.
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:10 PM
 
8,204 posts, read 11,923,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdsnickels View Post
Let me use this as an excuse to rant a bit about the Social Security web site:

It SUCKS!!! I can't say it strongly enough. I know that even the experts have trouble finding the laws/regulations (whatever they are) that state how some things are determined.

It's as if they are writing their pages (with all the acronyms, etc) in such a way as to make it as hard as possible for a person of average intelligence (or even a higher intelligence person, like myself ;-D ) to understand what the rules are.

What they should do is provide a lot of examples to fit almost all cases and then have a good search engine and categorization of information to find the examples that fit your case.
Actually, finding the laws (U.S. Code) and/or regulations (CFR: Code of Federal Regulations) is quite simple. Interpreting them correctly is a separate issue.

Everything SSA does is based either on USC or CFR. If you want to find out something about Social Security, it is best to go to the source documents rather than relying on SSA's website. The SSA's regs are delineated in Title 20 CFR Part 404.

20 CFR Part 404 - FEDERAL OLD-AGE, SURVIVORS AND DISABILITY INSURANCE (1950-) | LII / Legal Information Institute
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:10 AM
 
71 posts, read 64,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
Actually, finding the laws (U.S. Code) and/or regulations (CFR: Code of Federal Regulations) is quite simple. Interpreting them correctly is a separate issue.

Everything SSA does is based either on USC or CFR. If you want to find out something about Social Security, it is best to go to the source documents rather than relying on SSA's website. The SSA's regs are delineated in Title 20 CFR Part 404.

20 CFR Part 404 - FEDERAL OLD-AGE, SURVIVORS AND DISABILITY INSURANCE (1950-) | LII / Legal Information Institute
Yes - no offense meant but that info is worthless to a layperson even with higher than average intelligence like myself. Unless you're trained as an attorney that link is just going to give you a headache.

I found this: http://ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10069.pdf

It explains that if you start getting benefits at age 62 in 2015:
a) it doesn't matter how much you make this year BEFORE you apply
b) after you apply you cannot make more than $1310 in any one month or you get ZERO benefit for that month

My only question is when do they take away your benefit, if, say you make $1311 one month?
Do they take it THAT Month - like some alarm goes off - DING DING DING DING! - and they withhold your benefit check that very month? Or do you get it that month, the next etc and then they resolve the difference the next year after you file taxes... Nowhere do they exactly explain how that works as far as I can see.
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