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Old 01-31-2015, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Thanks! - The depth of your grasp of these matters far exceeds mine, although I'm learning from you and others. My 'comfort level' gravitates toward a simpler 'managed account approach,' versus a more intensive, hands-on management -- I've examined the 'glide path' strategy and, while it makes sense, my emotional psyche is better served by arms-length investments.

I'm not immediately concerned with 'more' ongoing income, but, it looks like further delaying the annuity income stream works against my probably longevity. Concerns for my wife's financial security (as you mentioned in another post) are diminished by the fact she has her own lifetime pension and SS, plus we have other equity and property investments. I have backed up her pension and SS with a Term Life policy, in the event she goes first; and we both have LTC policies.

At this point, the issue is primarily how to maximize the long-term ROI from annuity income re-investments --- to provide inflation/tax protection and a greater estate/legacy.
it boggles the mind as to how each situation is so unique and different . that is why it is so difficult as well as wrong for anyone to give anyone else personalized one on one advice here in these forums.

there are so many issues to consider as well as the wives and their temperament ,needs ,wants and the methods they will need in place.
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Old 01-31-2015, 04:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
it boggles the mind as to how each situation is so unique and different . that is why it is so difficult as well as wrong for anyone to give anyone else personalized one on one advice here in these forums.

there are so many issues to consider as well as the wives and their temperament ,needs ,wants and the methods they will need in place.
One of my goals was the minimum income for the surviving spouse. At this point she is golden. All else is secondary.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Think about all of this in the context of your other thread on RMD's and tax brackets. You still have a chunk of change worth of income to kick in. Congrats!
I think you are saying that necessary RMDs will limit my flexibility by forcing me to take the added income and pay taxes at 70-1/2 anyway (?). But, that scenario will exist whether I activate the annuity OR surrender it and roll it over into an investment account.

Thus, I'm still left with the "when" or "which" question. -- Although, as you point-out, we do feel fortunate that the choice is more one of 'which is best', rather than 'which is the least painful.'
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
I think you are saying that necessary RMDs will limit my flexibility by forcing me to take the added income and pay taxes at 70-1/2 anyway (?). But, that scenario will exist whether I activate the annuity OR surrender it and roll it over into an investment account.

Thus, I'm still left with the "when" or "which" question. -- Although, as you point-out, we do feel fortunate that the choice is more one of 'which is best', rather than 'which is the least painful.'
When MathJak says it boggles the mind that says it all. There are so many variables and similarities in the various indvidual situations. I understand your wondering and know there is no right answer. There is one question for you and that is long term health care and nursing home care. You may have a potential winner situation and that is how close are you to being able to pay nursing home care for you and your wife out of pocket with fixed income streams? That is golden to be able to present the ability to a high tier nursing home that you can pay for you and or your spouse out of what is a guaranteed fixed income stream. Not sure if you have paid with this scenario and the amounts involved are probably not appropriated to discuss in this forum. That annuity stream could put you over the top and enable you to pay for the care independent of variable investment income.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:29 AM
 
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the healthcare issue is a biggie and one of the reasons we have recently added an LTC policy to our portfolio .

the LTC insuance sits at the base of our investment pyramid , and for less than 1% of the income the asset base produces ,protects all the assets above it.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:03 AM
 
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we realized saying we were going to self insure meant we really were not. we would just invest as always and keep our fingers crossed that nothing happened in a down turn and we needed the money we were counting on except now it is 40% less than we planned on.

the other problem is usually the stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode and many expenditures that should be made on behalf of the spouse needing care are not made.

to really self insure that money has to be kept safe ,secure and liquid and the low returns on a sizeable chunk of dough makes zero sense when you can invest it , use a small piece of the gains and buy a policy.

the more we learned we realized the policy is the lessor evil.

we didn't buy the policy for the insurance as much as for the perks after the insurance runs out.

if you need medicaid you need to shift assets and use trusts effectivvely cutting the spouse off from the assets and placing restrictions on them.

even if you shift assets there are low limitations on income for the stay at home spouse if medicaid is needed for your spouse.

all well and good you preserved a million bucks in assets but now you can't draw more than 2980 a month or so in most states or lose it.


our policy avoids the shifting of assets and income limitations down the road and that is where the value is , not so much in the 3 years insurance we had to take.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:02 AM
 
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^^^^^^^
My comments were about having a fixed income stream composed of pensions, SS and or annuities that have an annual payout greater than nursing home care. This is independent of investments and is similar to some of the info presented by the OP.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:12 AM
 
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but what about if their is a spouse at home ? in our area that payout would have to be greater than130k a year just to support the care bill.


Long Island----- $145,344
New York City------ $$137,076
Northeastern--- $ $110,544

Last edited by mathjak107; 02-06-2015 at 11:22 AM..
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:37 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
but what about if their is a spouse at home ? in our area that payout would have to be greater than130k a year just to support the care bill.


Long Island----- $145,344
New York City------ $$137,076
Northeastern--- $ $110,544
It often depends on who
Marries who and do they both have full working careers with pensions and SS. Also as you know at what age and how do they take pensions and SS benefits. Age 70 and spousal benefits does wonders. Spousal benefit may lower payout but they provide a income certainty for spouses. The great thing about pensions and SS is you get a statement with a predictable income benefit from the very beginning or shortly there after. It is there for you in black and white what the eventual payouts are if you follow the program and stay married. So depending on the goals financial planning becomes easier and more predictable. Add to it tax sheltered savings and you still have that as a variable and less certain cash flow but still there. How many nursing homes would take you if you could be certain of paying them 90% of the cost til death? In many cases with COLA on both.

Last edited by TuborgP; 02-06-2015 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 02-07-2015, 03:23 AM
 
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the reality of it though says ss and pensions alone for most will not be nearly enough alone to cover nursing home care expenses and leave a spouse enough to live decently.

like water ,lifestyle tends to migrate around what you can afford. some a little more ,some a little less.

odds are if you have two great pensions and age 70 ss and have to spend 140k a year on care i would bet dollars to donuts that stay at home spouses lifestyle will fall off a cliff without a hefty savings to draw from.

in fact i would venture to say just our portfolio potential in income surpasses 90% of the income of those with great pensions and ss and we would have a hard time sustaining 140k a year in expenses just for the care..

long term care costs can be a real life changer for all but the very wealthy and pensions or not most will barely survive the costs for 5 years if they have a spouse at home..

don't count on much help from statistics here as there are only two outcomes , we need care or we don't.
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