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Old 02-07-2015, 07:30 AM
 
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In line with what Mathjak is writing:

In the 1980's I had a friend whose grandmother had millions of dollars. With age, the grandmother had a number of health issues. She eventually was moved out of her home where she had round-the-clock private care into assisted living. From assisted living she was moved into a nursing home and from there she was in and out of the hospital. She had no LTC insurance (I'm not sure if it even existed then). Her oldest son paid all of the bills and handled her finances. She had a CPA and a Broker who the oldest son worked with. All decisions were made jointly between the grandmother's two sons. The grandmother died at age 92. At her passing there was $250K left in her estate. The youngest son (my friend's uncle) hired a forensic accountant to determine where all the money had gone. This caused a huge rift in my friend's family. It was determined that all of the grandmother's wealth was properly spent on her medical care and life needs.

It has been decades and I lost contact with this friend, but I've always remembered this life lesson.
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Old 02-07-2015, 07:58 AM
 
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the real problem trying to use your own money is the stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode and alot of times what was earmarked for care and should be spent on care never goes for the care of the other spouse if it is anything over and above what they have to pay for.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the reality of it though says ss and pensions alone for most will not be nearly enough alone to cover nursing home care expenses and leave a spouse enough to live decently.

like water ,lifestyle tends to migrate around what you can afford. some a little more ,some a little less.

odds are if you have two great pensions and age 70 ss and have to spend 140k a year on care i would bet dollars to donuts that stay at home spouses lifestyle will fall off a cliff without a hefty savings to draw from.

in fact i would venture to say just our portfolio potential in income surpasses 90% of the income of those with great pensions and ss and we would have a hard time sustaining 140k a year in expenses just for the care..

long term care costs can be a real life changer for all but the very wealthy and pensions or not most will barely survive the costs for 5 years if they have a spouse at home..

don't count on much help from statistics here as there are only two outcomes , we need care or we don't.
If you are assuming 140k per year for each person and 140k in income stream. Individual situations will be based on their reality.

Last edited by TuborgP; 02-07-2015 at 10:46 AM..
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:45 AM
 
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So the grandmother's money properly spent on HER, and yet still leaving two sons 125K each.....there's something wrong with that? Not that anyone said there was, but it could have been implied, so I'm just asking: What exactly is the 'lesson' to be learned?

Plus, if the sons had done well for themselves IN THEIR OWN RIGHT, the 250K may not have even been an issue for them so maybe that's why they did the right thing by mom FIRST and had an eye for inheriting her money, second. Should they have inherited millions and mom not be taken care of?

Besides, with all the professionals they had at their disposal, I can't imagine they didn't know how to still protect assets even after mom started needed care. Maybe they thought it's HER money it SHOULD be spent on her, and if there's something left for us, fine...but mom's care is more important...... we'll be more than OK regardless......Like I said just asking.

Also you said all the decisions were made jointly by her two sons, if that's the case the younger one was IN ON the decisions while they were being made.....so why hire a forensic accountant afterward. He should have already known how and why the money was being spent if he was part of the decisions in the first place.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:55 AM
 
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Considering she started with millions and only had $250K left after all her years in various care, the lesson is that it is expensive and self-insurancing is costly.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Considering she started with millions and only had $250K left after all her years in various care, the lesson is that it is expensive and self-insurancing is costly.
As long as the money is there...I suppose THAT is the blessing.
Better to need and have, than need and NOT have.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rdflk View Post
As long as the money is there...I suppose THAT is the blessing.
Better to need and have, than need and NOT have.
I was referencing with fixed income streams of pensions and SS and perhaps annuities and not drawdowns
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:45 AM
 
29,837 posts, read 34,918,975 times
Reputation: 11752
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the reality of it though says ss and pensions alone for most will not be nearly enough alone to cover nursing home care expenses and leave a spouse enough to live decently.

like water ,lifestyle tends to migrate around what you can afford. some a little more ,some a little less.

odds are if you have two great pensions and age 70 ss and have to spend 140k a year on care i would bet dollars to donuts that stay at home spouses lifestyle will fall off a cliff without a hefty savings to draw from.

in fact i would venture to say just our portfolio potential in income surpasses 90% of the income of those with great pensions and ss and we would have a hard time sustaining 140k a year in expenses just for the care..

long term care costs can be a real life changer for all but the very wealthy and pensions or not most will barely survive the costs for 5 years if they have a spouse at home..

don't count on much help from statistics here as there are only two outcomes , we need care or we don't.
You might want to read the following link on pension incomes in your NY. It goes beyond the average pension which includes part time and those working less than full careers etc. The breakdown of those with longer full service might surprise you and if married to a similar benefit as many are:
Measuring Average Public Pensions
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