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Old 08-03-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Cochise county, AZ
4,972 posts, read 3,458,710 times
Reputation: 10494

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
I was not defending or excusing my cousin, just giving an example (case study?) to illustrate a point. I think if I were in his shoes, I would swallow my pride and apply for public assistance; I have witnessed close up the level of misery that he is enduring, and I know I would not endure that same level of misery unless there were absolutely no alternative.
When I became disabled, unfortunately pride made me keep trying & I went from an exec position to home health aide, which to some clients meant housekeeping. I did it as long as I could before my back & leg would not do it anymore. The pay was 1/2 of my old pay but I didn't care, honest work was all I wanted.

Anyway, during that time I applied for & received healthcare through the county & once I couldn't work & had a back operation, I applied for monetary help & food stamps. I received $200 in monies & $ 200 in food help. Wasn't much, but I was able to at least semi pay my way while I stayed with family. I had applied for ss but was denied. Finally hired a lawyer & the judge saw I was not lying & granted me disability status.

It is hard when you're proud & have always worked but, as the judge said, you've worked long enough & deserve to be taken care of now. What a cloud of guilt was lifted from my shoulders. I don't know if this will help your cousin but his relying on family, THAT should be more of a guilt trip than taking help when he has paid his way throughout life.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,365 posts, read 3,700,708 times
Reputation: 4105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berrie143 View Post
My husband and I have heard for years that a person should have at least 8-12 times the amount of their last salary in the bank when he/she retires. We have 10% of my husband's salary going into his 401K every week and his company contributes 6% and by our calculations we'll have plenty of money in the bank if we keep on the path that we're going on- we have 30+ years to go. This is not including whatever money I'm going to earn and contribute when I get back into the workforce outside of the home (I'm a stay-at-home mom now) so I'll hopefully also have a decent retirement option when the time comes.

Our biggest goal is to buy a house (been trying for almost 3 years now, it's been a nightmare) and have it paid off when we retire. My husband is adamant about that and keeps telling me that having a mortgage hanging over one's head when retirement comes about will drain an account fast. We just want to be smart and plan accordingly and be prepared for any surprises or life-changing events.

My husband has also been talking to his father about his (FIL's) retirement and my husband is astonished by how little he has in his 401K. Granted, my FIL has turned over half of his 401K to my MIL, as they're getting divorced, but given what he has in the account and what he has in liquid cash it's a lot less than what we expected, especially since my FIL is slated for retirement in 5 years or less.

He told my husband that he has 200K in the 401K, 100K in liquid cash (from an inheritance) and he owns 2 homes with my MIL, both worth about 450-500K, with one that has an 80K note left on it. From what we've heard, both homes are looking to be sold and the remaining mortgage is going to be split between them and paid off. My FIL also owns half of his father's house, which is worth about 600K, but that isn't going to be sold anytime soon.

We're concerned that he isn't prepared very well and is going to rely solely upon the sale of the homes as his "retirement". He's also been talking about buying a vacation home now and making that his retirement home when the time comes- he's been showing us homes he's seen that are going for 200K+. I told my husband that it concerns me that he'll run out of money and we'll have to be the ones to support him, as my SIL and her husband don't have any money saved for retirement at all so they won't be able to contribute.

So, how much should one realistically have when he/she retires and live comfortably? Should we be aggressive in our approach or more cautious and steady? And what the heck should we tell my FIL, if anything at all?
I would replace the 8 to 12 time the last salary to 25 times your yearly living expenses. This is basically the 4% SWR. I think this works well for planning, but maybe 10years before you retire you should refine your thinking based on what you have saved and the state of the economy.

By the way I hope you do not have the savings in the "Bank" You need investments that will grow, I lean toward stocks. Bonds are not good now.
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Old 08-05-2015, 05:42 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,878,614 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukgirl49 View Post
Of course, this is completely correct Our individual retirement income and goals merely reflect our already existing diversity: so can anything useful really be said in a thread which asks how much you need to retire or is an inherently pointless question?

Perhaps we just need the reassurance from our peers that when we leap into the retirement unknown we will have a safe landing somewhere and somehow.
Yup. Sometimes we want a discussion for discussion's sake. Sometimes I type up a post and then don't post for one reason or another and still found the exercise useful because it gave me a context for walking through my logic. One of the most common reasons I decide not to post is that I may be interpreted as slamming someone else's ideas because mine are different. In some other forums on C-D, I do post like that because they are forums for debating ideas. But here we are more about reassurance. I strongly concur with your post.
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,737,509 times
Reputation: 32304
Default What is a "forum" actually?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Yup. Sometimes we want a discussion for discussion's sake. Sometimes I type up a post and then don't post for one reason or another and still found the exercise useful because it gave me a context for walking through my logic. One of the most common reasons I decide not to post is that I may be interpreted as slamming someone else's ideas because mine are different. In some other forums on C-D, I do post like that because they are forums for debating ideas. But here we are more about reassurance. I strongly concur with your post.
The meaning of the word "forum" is any public meeting place or medium for open discussion. There is no reason why the Retirement Forum should have a different definition. That can certainly include "reassurance", but if it's limited to reassurance then it's no longer a forum and a large number of participants have been unceremoniously excluded.

The unspoken assumption of what the goal of this Retirement Forum is leads to much talking past each other and ironically, much acrimony. Therefore, it is a good thing that you have brought your opinion out into the open so that it, too can be discussed. (You are not the first, but this topic is so important).

Actually, a discussion and a debate are essentially the same thing, the difference amounting to semantic hair-splitting. Debate is not a bad word. You and I are having a debate right now. A debate does not have to be rude, or angry, or insulting, although it can be all those and more. Personal attacks ARE against the rules, of course, and that is where we are so grateful that this is a moderated site.

I am desperately attempting to retain the Retirement Forum as a forum, a place where various views and opinions can contend, and I have the City-Data Terms of Service (rules) on my side. The rules say nothing about limiting our posts to reassurance. Again, there is nothing wrong with reassuring others, but there is a basic difference between group therapy and a forum. If some derive comfort from the reassurance of others here in the Retirement Forum, that's fantastic, but, again ironically, when those who believe in reassurance as the sole goal try to "enforce" that, things often get very nasty. (I am not saying you are among the "enforcers", ReachTheBeach).

This is the most important discussion conceivable in the Retirement Forum. It would be such a shame if it ceased to be a forum. The demise of the forum qua forum is already a source of regret for many, and we have lost a few good people because of it. I know - I get DM's about it.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:01 AM
 
Location: ☀️ SWFL ⛱ 🌴
2,433 posts, read 1,668,181 times
Reputation: 8678
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
Yup. Sometimes we want a discussion for discussion's sake. Sometimes I type up a post and then don't post for one reason or another and still found the exercise useful because it gave me a context for walking through my logic. One of the most common reasons I decide not to post is that I may be interpreted as slamming someone else's ideas because mine are different. In some other forums on C-D, I do post like that because they are forums for debating ideas. But here we are more about reassurance. I strongly concur with your post.
My posts and almost posts ratio is 1:20. Typing up a post clarifies much for me, to the point of being therapeutic. On most days I use three criteria for posting: is it true, is it necessary and is it kind. The necessary one is what makes me not click the submit reply button the most.

How much do you need to retire is too subjective with a myriad of variables to be of help on an open forum. I still like to read others thoughts on it though. It's what I enjoy about the retirement board; there is such a broad spectrum of retirement wants and needs.

Last edited by jean_ji; 08-05-2015 at 08:29 AM..
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,878,614 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
The meaning of the word "forum" is any public meeting place or medium for open discussion. There is no reason why the Retirement Forum should have a different definition. That can certainly include "reassurance", but if it's limited to reassurance then it's no longer a forum and a large number of participants have been unceremoniously excluded.

The unspoken assumption of what the goal of this Retirement Forum is leads to much talking past each other and ironically, much acrimony. Therefore, it is a good thing that you have brought your opinion out into the open so that it, too can be discussed. (You are not the first, but this topic is so important).

Actually, a discussion and a debate are essentially the same thing, the difference amounting to semantic hair-splitting. Debate is not a bad word. You and I are having a debate right now. A debate does not have to be rude, or angry, or insulting, although it can be all those and more. Personal attacks ARE against the rules, of course, and that is where we are so grateful that this is a moderated site.

I am desperately attempting to retain the Retirement Forum as a forum, a place where various views and opinions can contend, and I have the City-Data Terms of Service (rules) on my side. The rules say nothing about limiting our posts to reassurance. Again, there is nothing wrong with reassuring others, but there is a basic difference between group therapy and a forum. If some derive comfort from the reassurance of others here in the Retirement Forum, that's fantastic, but, again ironically, when those who believe in reassurance as the sole goal try to "enforce" that, things often get very nasty. (I am not saying you are among the "enforcers", ReachTheBeach).

This is the most important discussion conceivable in the Retirement Forum. It would be such a shame if it ceased to be a forum. The demise of the forum qua forum is already a source of regret for many, and we have lost a few good people because of it. I know - I get DM's about it.
You have crazy thick skin and so do I; we can debate and even argue and it's no big deal. Over in Great Debates I bring out the long knives and even get censured sometimes. But there are others here who seem almost afraid to post at times for fear of being ridiculed (or feel they are when others disagree). I try to be more careful here than in other forums and sometimes I end up not posting. You're right, the TOS says it is fine to brusquely disagree as long as it isn't a personal attack. I still try really hard to be nice in this forum.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,737,509 times
Reputation: 32304
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
You have crazy thick skin and so do I; we can debate and even argue and it's no big deal. Over in Great Debates I bring out the long knives and even get censured sometimes. But there are others here who seem almost afraid to post at times for fear of being ridiculed (or feel they are when others disagree). I try to be more careful here than in other forums and sometimes I end up not posting. You're right, the TOS says it is fine to brusquely disagree as long as it isn't a personal attack. I still try really hard to be nice in this forum.
Nothing wrong with your attitude or with your practices! We are not as far apart as I originally suspected. I'm still glad I posted with my general principle, because all that has been a source of great misunderstanding here. As you so aptly and accurately point out, some people feel they are being ridiculed just because others disagree.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,847,776 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach View Post
You have crazy thick skin and so do I; we can debate and even argue and it's no big deal. Over in Great Debates I bring out the long knives and even get censured sometimes. But there are others here who seem almost afraid to post at times for fear of being ridiculed (or feel they are when others disagree). I try to be more careful here than in other forums and sometimes I end up not posting. You're right, the TOS says it is fine to brusquely disagree as long as it isn't a personal attack. I still try really hard to be nice in this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Nothing wrong with your attitude or with your practices! We are not as far apart as I originally suspected. I'm still glad I posted with my general principle, because all that has been a source of great misunderstanding here. As you so aptly and accurately point out, some people feel they are being ridiculed just because others disagree.

To both in one breath; great discussion and debate! I so love this forum and the discussions we have in them. I would not want this to change for anything except for having new topics re-enforcing the old points are good at the same time.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,461 posts, read 5,928,514 times
Reputation: 16156
If I could chime in one of the things I really like about the Retirement Board is the lack of confrontation. This is where the adults hang out and most of the time everyone is very civil and polite to one another. That does not mean we are sucking up or are hesitant to give an alternative view on things. But coming from a guy who spends a lot (too much?) time on various message boards this is one I like a lot for the reasons I just gave.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Idaho
1,454 posts, read 1,155,024 times
Reputation: 5492
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
If I could chime in one of the things I really like about the Retirement Board is the lack of confrontation. This is where the adults hang out and most of the time everyone is very civil and polite to one another.
I agree that that this retirement board is relatively nicer, kinder and more civil than most internet boards. We do have to thank the moderators for doing a good job of deleting nasty comments. I did see a few popped up every so often but got cleaned up pretty quickly.

I think instead of asking participants to develop thick skins, we should ask the highly sensitive, reactive thin skinned folks to refrain from being too finger-trigger happy. Quite a number of times, it seems that people either misread or misinterpreted others' postings and got upset for no good reasons. Good threads got derailed or degraded into arguments, bickerings or even name calling!

Back to the merit of of this topic on how much does one really need to retire comfortably? I agree that the needs are unique, and unless one is very wealthy, no one can foresee whether their nest egg will provide them with a comfortable retirement for the rest of their life.

However, for me, it's good to hear about retirees' experience and it's good to know how others plan for their retirement. I know that health care expenses are considerable in retirement and more so in early retirement but until seeing others like mathjak showed their numbers, I have specific figures to think about. I know that if needed, we can certainly cut back our lifestyle to have our expenses match our income. However in seeing how retirees with income much lower than our expected retirement income are quite contented, it gives me the added assurance that we will be just fine if I retire early. I think it is also quite inspiring to see some people devote a good chunk of their retirement saving for traveling. Some combine their desire to travel with cost saving by RVing etc.

For me, a forum is not only a place for discussion or debate but also for sharing ideas and experience. I also don't have any problems with the peer support in terms of advice, suggestions or even sometimes giving 'virtual' hugs. They cost nothing but a bit of one's time showing that we are human beings who understand and care. It probably takes some thread-topic police more time to protest than to just click and open another more interesting/suitable thread or post.
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