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Old 01-29-2015, 03:45 PM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,312 posts, read 15,368,793 times
Reputation: 9503

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There are certain situations in which a DNR doesn't particularly do any good - for instance, if the paramedics are called - their responsibility is to get the patient, still alive, to the hospital. They don't care if the person has a DNR or if their living will specifically bars CPR or intubation or any of that. It is an emergency situation and they don't (and shouldn't have to) take the time to sift through paperwork. A DNR bracelet doesn't change that, either.

Sometimes in emergency situations in hospitals they don't have time to check, either, which is why if the patient's condition warrants it (and your state allows), you need to have a MOLST or POLST order (which is pretty much a DNR backed up by a doctor's signature as a medical order, generally posted on the wall in the patient's room).

National POLST
https://www.compassionandsupport.org...lst/molst_form

In my case with my father, we went through and did a living well and advanced directives and everything else we could think of when he was diagnosed with an incurable neurological condition. We also talked it out after. He was adamant about what he wanted. But when his condition started to slip, it was very gradual, and I could see his views on what he wanted wavering as his mental condition deteriorated. He was raised Catholic and I think his sister and her priest started trying to convince him that a DNR was akin to suicide. (Not all Catholic priests believe this, btw.) But as his executor (and only child), it was my job to interpret his documents as I thought he would wish at that point in time, not when we were sitting in a lawyer's office a year earlier and his impairments were minor. That was a tough line to walk.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,994,426 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceOut001 View Post
I'm not picking up anyone's tab. I promise you won't pick up mine. Observation Status is a pitfall primarily for seniors and a money maker for hospitals. Move the ill person out of the hospital to hospice or another care center.
"Observation status" was a sneaky move; many patients and families do not even know that the patient is not formally admitted but just placed under this status. Someone posted a good article on this awhile back, warning readers to make sure they are actually admitted or they will face financial consequences.

Forgot the link: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0EM1US20140611

"It is critical to know your patient status with any hospital stay. Being “observed” may lead to high and unexpected charges for which patients are responsible...

"As Medicare warns on its website: 'Find out if you're an inpatient or an outpatient—it affects what you pay.'...

"The problem: to get full benefits from Medicare after hospitalization, patients must be admitted as “inpatients” for at least three midnights (this is called the “three night rule”) and any nights spent under observation do not count."
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:10 PM
 
4,575 posts, read 7,067,487 times
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thanks....that 3 midnights rule is very informative...I had no idea there was such a thing!
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:28 PM
 
4,575 posts, read 7,067,487 times
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Minerva, so sorry to hear about your issues with the Cleveland Clinic. I know the CC was one of the top reasons you moved to Cleveland, to be able to get care there. I hope this all works out for you, we all have to be our own medical advocates these days!
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:53 PM
 
766 posts, read 1,160,193 times
Reputation: 1415
When "K" was diagnosed with 2 different forms of Cancer.... Melanoma and Lung Cancer both!... they already removed one lung.... they left the 3 tumors next to his heart (don't ask me why? I honestly don't understand it)... they were removing skin spots off him like a butcher! Chemo, radiation... you name it! Had his kidney removed.... Then it hit his BONES!!! AND HIS BRAIN!!! And those damn Cancer Clinics STILL GAVE HIM 40% CHANCE???????????????? (IF HE AGREED TO MORE RADIATION AND CHEMO!)

They fried his throat!!! He couldn't swallow anymore! (they were aiming for the 3 tumors next to his heart)

I will never ever forget the night he called me...... his daughters took him to the ER....and the ER inserted a feeding tube into him. That's when he called me.... and I 'suspect' for the 1st time he just got SLAPPED WITH REALITY!!!!

2 wks later he was in a coma... and a few days later he died.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,423 posts, read 21,267,665 times
Reputation: 24257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
This should not surprise anybody. We knew when Obama pushed his Obamacare plan on our nation that there were going to be "death panels". These are just the procedures and if a hospital doesn't make enough old folks die there will be severe penalties for the hospital, the physicians and the administrators. To complete his fundamental changes to our nation they need to get rid of people who actually remember freedom, prosperity and liberty.

And having worked in a LTC/Rehab facility for 13 years, as a CNA, I applaud Obama for this! I'll applaud him more when he gets a National Death With Dignity law passed, and a liberalized one at that where you don't have to be terminally ill to qualify!

Some day, we'll hang our heads in shame at how we cruelly kept so many of our seniors alive, just for the sake of jobs and Big Pharma! Never, would we inflict that kind of cruelty on our beloved pets!

I'm hoping when that day comes, someone comes to my room, gives me an injection, even without my knowledge/approval, and makes the decision for me!

I see so many hanging on futilely, but always an excuse to hang on another month or year!

'My great-granddaughter is having a baby next year, and I want to stay alive to see my first great-great-grandchild!" And then? More excuses! Stay alive to see the 2nd, 3rd great-great-grandchild!
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,423 posts, read 21,267,665 times
Reputation: 24257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post

It was as if the powers that be did not like her wishes and hoped they would change so she could be resuscitated if need be. This was in 2000. Perhaps attitudes have changed to be more willing to follow a patient's wishes.
In my 13 years at a LTC facility, I've seen it! It's criminal, in my opinion!

Patient is DNR, and still there goes the crash cart to the room to try to resuscitate the patient!

Now that's more likely to happen when there's a low headcount in the building!

The facility where I work, they go all out to have as many Full-coders in the building as possible! The name of the game: job security!
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:20 AM
 
143 posts, read 132,865 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
And having worked in a LTC/Rehab facility for 13 years, as a CNA, I applaud Obama for this! I'll applaud him more when he gets a National Death With Dignity law passed, and a liberalized one at that where you don't have to be terminally ill to qualify!

I'm hoping when that day comes, someone comes to my room, gives me an injection, even without my knowledge/approval, and makes the decision for me!

I see so many hanging on futilely, but always an excuse to hang on another month or year!
"My great-granddaughter is having a baby next year, and I want to stay alive to see my first great-great-grandchild!" And then? More excuses! Stay alive to see the 2nd, 3rd great-great-grandchild!
You may applaud if you wish but the so-called "Death Panels" were never a real proposal.

Your advocacy of involuntary euthanasia is disturbing. I am from Oregon and I am proud that we were the first to allow physician-assisted death with dignity. I strongly support this option for everyone who seeks it. But advocating involuntary euthanasia will only serve to delay such legislation elsewhere. Euthanizing someone without their knowledge and consent is called murder. It should remain so.

People should be allowed (and receive treatment) to continue living as long as they wish. The expressed "excuses" you outline are not excuses at all. They are an expression of a desire to live and should be honored and respected.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:18 PM
 
753 posts, read 707,143 times
Reputation: 1175
<< I'm hoping when that day comes, someone comes to my room, gives me an injection, even without my knowledge/approval, and makes the decision for me! >>

Oh I hope not... informed consent is about as far as you can be from murder.
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,253 posts, read 8,556,682 times
Reputation: 35693
I have no issues at all with it....if it helps people make choices to be more comfortable, fantastic!
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