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Old 02-07-2015, 09:03 AM
 
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In parts of New England you can find some hybrid independent living facilities that offer some level of service.

I know of a couple that require no buy in, just monthly rental. They come with weekly housekeeping and linen service, three meals a day and use of the facility vans for going to doctors appointments & shopping.
Heat,electric & cable are included but no phone.

You can get a small 1-2 bedroom apartment in a building or set of buildings with attractive dining halls, library, meeting rooms. They do not have medical services or help with day to day living. Residents again are very elderly for the most part. .

They are beautiful but pricey- the ones I know of start at about $ 2500 a month for the smallest apartment. However, a regular, decent one bedroom apartment in the general vicinity would run about
$1200 a month, often with no utilities.

People like them because when they do require true assisted living, they can just leave without losing any money.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
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When visiting homes for MIL we visited many IL facilities. Some are much more expensive than others. Some can offer subsidized living based upon your income. 5 years ago, MIL had "too high" of an income at $2200/month (SS+pension). She also had assets in a stock fund of around $30,000, and that was too high for the subsidy also. I will say that even the subsidized places looked pretty nice and she would have been happy with the standards of cleanliness and food. She is in her 80's.

Of all the places we visited, including the 2 ILF's and 1 ALF that she has lived in so far, she is one of the most active and capable of the tenants, even though she doesn't drive anymore. Many people in the IL, should have been in AL, but they hired private caregivers. As a 57 year old right now, I can't imagine living there at 62. You would probably be the absolute youngest person there. The folks there are from a different generation than us. The music, activities, and outings are extremely slow paced and geared to people in their mid 70's to 90's. I suspect that as we boomers age, they will have to update that. Playing bingo, listening to Sinatra, and answering trivia from the 1940's and 1950's will not cut it for our generation, I'm afraid. There may be senior communities that are more geared to "active" retirees that would probably be a better fit.

By all means investigate a few, see if it's a place you can see yourself. They are always happy to tour you through the facility. I would point blank ask them about the rent and subsidies available on the phone before you visit, so as not to waste anyone's time. One clue about subsidies is to look for the HUD logo in their ads or literature. Costs for IL run from about $2000/month to much, much more in unsubsidized facilities. In order to be placed in AL, many will require a doctor's report detailing any diagnoses and what level of care is required. They are also higher cost, because of the additional care that an AL provides. AL is NOT a nursing home. The tenant must be mobile under their own power (walker/wheelchair is okay) and capable of doing bathing, dressing, and hygiene, and eating with minimal assistance or cueing.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:15 AM
 
Location: delaware
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i'm only familiar with retirement communities in delaware and maryland . in these states continuing care retirement communities-ccrcs- have all levels of care ranging from independent ( can do own cooking, shopping, laundry, etc. assisted living (need help with at least one Activity of Daily Living -ADLs- mobility, toileting, eating, bathing, dressing, transfers ), and skilled nursing care- need at least one function of skilled nursing as defined by medicare. most, not all, ccrcs have a lump sum buy-in, and it can range from as low as $30,000 for a studio unit up to $300,000. monthly fees can range from $1400 to $3000+, depending on size of unit and whether you choose refundable entrance fee plan, and which one. ccrcs guarantee you care for life regardless of escalating levels of care, and yes, fees per month can increase. most non- profit facilities will not turn a person out if they run out of money, or at least this is what they advertize. monthly fees will significantly increase if you enter assisted living-$3500 -$7000. per month and skilled nursing, higher. medicaid/medicare is not accepted for independent or assisted living. medicare may be accepted for a portion of the time nursing care is needed if medicare guidelines are met. medicaid is not accepted usually. long term care insurance is acceptable at the assisted living level.

in addition to ccrcs there are of course some facilities that are just assisted living and just skilled nursing where a person would not enter unless in need of some kind of care.

there are independent retirement apartments- rent usually with income limits- and some which are private pay- usually $1500+ per month. these that i'm familiar with often have a dining room on site, a beauty shop, a small grocery .

usually you don't see a person entering a ccrc until at least in their seventies, although these days, there are some which seem to attract somewhat younger residents, and market to that demographic.

there are all kinds of variations of these facilities. a few are offering leasing in addition to purchasing, but monthly fees are usually higher. my feeling is we will see more flexible options in coming years as aging baby boomers will demand them.


catsy girl
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
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My wife and I have started to investigate retirement (Active Adult Communities) facilities that offer various levels of progressive services and care along with ala carte services one can purchase like meals, maid service, etc. At present (early 70's) we have no need for such but one never knows what the future holds. My main concern is my wife. She has never changed a light bulb nor waxed a floor. I especially want for her to have the services she needs. When something goes wrong, I want her to be able to pick up the phone and call maintenance.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
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Default Pricey? How do you figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
In parts of New England you can find some hybrid independent living facilities that offer some level of service.

I know of a couple that require no buy in, just monthly rental. They come with weekly housekeeping and linen service, three meals a day and use of the facility vans for going to doctors appointments & shopping.
Heat,electric & cable are included but no phone.

You can get a small 1-2 bedroom apartment in a building or set of buildings with attractive dining halls, library, meeting rooms. They do not have medical services or help with day to day living. Residents again are very elderly for the most part. .

They are beautiful but pricey- the ones I know of start at about $ 2500 a month for the smallest apartment. However, a regular, decent one bedroom apartment in the general vicinity would run about
$1200 a month, often with no utilities.

People like them because when they do require true assisted living, they can just leave without losing any money.
Comparing the costs which you quoted ($1200 a month for a regular apartment on the open market versus $2500 a month to include weekly housekeeping, linen service, three meals a day, utilities, and van service), that makes only $1300 a month extra for the meals, van, utilities, and weekly maid service. That's got to be the bargain of the century!! $1300 a month divided by 30 equals $43 per day. I spend a minimum of $20 per day on food, and I never go to expensive restaurants. How much would weekly maid service cost on the open market? Utilities vary a lot by geographical location (climate), but figure a couple of hundred a month? And what would be the cost of a van service which takes you right to the door of your destination?

The example you quoted represents a hell of a bargain. I believe it's made possible by the efficiency of having lots of people receiving the services on sort of an assembly-line basis (maids going from room to room as opposed to coming to private homes, vans taking more than one person at a time, meals prepared for dozens or hundreds of people at a time).
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:57 AM
 
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When one of my daughters was in high school, she had a waitressing job serving dinners at a very nice assisted living facility. She enjoyed her job very much, particularly because she got to visit with the same people every evening. The diners always had a choice of several entrees. They seemed to laugh, and joke, and know each other quite well; it was a pleasant atmosphere.

One of her friends married right after high school and took a job as the receptionist at this same facility, and loved working there. After a while, her friend had a baby, and she would occasionally bring her by so the residents could see her. Sadly, her baby developed a fatal disease and died at 1 1/2 yrs. Many of the residents wanted to attend the funeral, so staff members who were also attending, drove the facility bus up to the church.

Every building does have it's own atmosphere. One thing the residents had in common is that they all had the financial means to be able to live there. As stated before in other's posts, they are definitely for those that a financially "comfortable".
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:00 PM
 
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Escort Rider- what you have to realize is that the typical occupant of these independent living facilities is a woman alone. Women vastly outnumber men. The typical age is well into 80's, even 90's.

That's a generation ahead of you & I. At that time, women either didn't work or worked at lower paying jobs than they do today. Teaching and nursing were at one time the only decent paying jobs open to women. Thus, income stream for most women would not have been what it is comparatively today.

Often, their hubbies have passed on, with much of the family income going toward his medical bills and care. Often the home has been turned over to the children. Wife has been left with hubby's SS and whatever else is left. For people in their 80's & older none of that equals what today's payments might be.

Most women that of age would find it hard financially to live in one of these independent living/ assisted living places. More are looking for subsidized housing. That's why we keep saying it's pricey. It's pricey for the great majority of those who currently need it.

To you and I it seems cheap at $ 2500 a month, just for independent living. But when you & I are ready for this in 15-20 years or so, the cost may be -take a guess - maybe triple or quadruple??? Will you be able to afford it then ? Or if you could, for how long?
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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When looking for a place for my mom (75, sharp as a tack, but a very bad back, and quite weak), I learned that there is a big donut hole in the senior independent living offerings. There are many options at the top of the market, for rents of about $4,000 per month. These usually provided two meals per day and a roster of activities, with much of any additional needs being priced a la carte.

At the other end were senior apartment complexes where only a handful of units were "market rate" and the rest were subsidized and had an income cap of something like 21K per year. The market rate units all had very long waiting lists. These communities didn't offer dining, but did have activities and were knit into the general senior community in the city.

Unfortunately, mom didn't have anywhere near the money to live in the first option. She would have blown through her assets in about three years. But she had too much income (just SS, a spousal pension, and some mandatory IRA withdrawals totaling about $2,500 per month) to qualify for anything but the market rate units at the other communities. We had to look at other solutions.

We considered building a casita behind our house. But mom still very much wanted "community", and she wouldn't have that with us. After looking at a lot of different apartment complexes, small houses, etc., we settled on one condo complex that seemed to tick enough boxes. It's a large, newer building designed as condos from the get-go, rather than apartments converted to condos. So the finishes are nicer, ceilings higher, halls wider, etc. It's a security building, with secured parking. Although it's not restricted to seniors, there are a lot of seniors there, and they do try to maintain a "community" of sorts. It's convenient to shopping, etc. Her rent will be $1,000 per month. That will leave a lot of room in her budget for things like housekeeping, or even some personal chef help from time to time. It's a way to keep her independent as long as possible, and it will give us an opportunity to see how long she'll be able to maintain that independence. Its about 2.5 miles from us, so it will be say to get to her.

Housing is a challenge for that senior who has an income of 25K-75K. It's not enough income to entice those facilities in it for the profit, and it's too much income for those facilities with government funding for low-income tenant. It's left to the senior and the families to work out the best options.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:42 PM
 
10,824 posts, read 8,084,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakabedy View Post
When looking for a place for my mom (75, sharp as a tack, but a very bad back, and quite weak), I learned that there is a big donut hole in the senior independent living offerings. There are many options at the top of the market, for rents of about $4,000 per month. These usually provided two meals per day and a roster of activities, with much of any additional needs being priced a la carte.

At the other end were senior apartment complexes where only a handful of units were "market rate" and the rest were subsidized and had an income cap of something like 21K per year. The market rate units all had very long waiting lists. These communities didn't offer dining, but did have activities and were knit into the general senior community in the city.
Yes, that's exactly the situation here in TX.


Quote:
After looking at a lot of different apartment complexes, small houses, etc., we settled on one condo complex that seemed to tick enough boxes. It's a large, newer building designed as condos from the get-go, rather than apartments converted to condos. So the finishes are nicer, ceilings higher, halls wider, etc. It's a security building, with secured parking. Although it's not restricted to seniors, there are a lot of seniors there, and they do try to maintain a "community" of sorts. It's convenient to shopping, etc. Her rent will be $1,000 per month. That will leave a lot of room in her budget for things like housekeeping, or even some personal chef help from time to time. It's a way to keep her independent as long as possible, and it will give us an opportunity to see how long she'll be able to maintain that independence.
Sounds like a good find!
One drawback I've seen with 95% of non-age-restricted apartments and condos is that they invariably have stairs, something not every elderly (> than 75 y.o.) person can handle.
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,769,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
Escort Rider- what you have to realize is that the typical occupant of these independent living facilities is a woman alone. Women vastly outnumber men. The typical age is well into 80's, even 90's.

That's a generation ahead of you & I. At that time, women either didn't work or worked at lower paying jobs than they do today. Teaching and nursing were at one time the only decent paying jobs open to women. Thus, income stream for most women would not have been what it is comparatively today.

Often, their hubbies have passed on, with much of the family income going toward his medical bills and care. Often the home has been turned over to the children. Wife has been left with hubby's SS and whatever else is left. For people in their 80's & older none of that equals what today's payments might be.

Most women that of age would find it hard financially to live in one of these independent living/ assisted living places. More are looking for subsidized housing. That's why we keep saying it's pricey. It's pricey for the great majority of those who currently need it.

To you and I it seems cheap at $ 2500 a month, just for independent living. But when you & I are ready for this in 15-20 years or so, the cost may be -take a guess - maybe triple or quadruple??? Will you be able to afford it then ? Or if you could, for how long?
Indeed, you have good points and you have provided a different perspective from which to look at this.
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