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Old 02-20-2015, 07:14 AM
 
71 posts, read 64,499 times
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So I think I understand this but I want to make SURE I do so please tell me if I am correct:

As I understand it, my wife of 10+ years can, at age 62 begin to collect social security based on my account that equals about half what I will be getting at 62, even though she never worked enough to get any Social Security for herself.

Do I understand this correctly?

Now, she is very close to getting the 40 points needed, but even if she does get them, her amount of Social Security benefit would be about $200-300/month at age 62. So regardless of whether she gets the points to get her own or not, it doesn't really matter in terms of her income, as she'll get more by collecting against mine at 62 (i.e. if I start collecting, say, $1000 at age 62, she'll then be able to collect about half that (say, $500/mo) on top of what I am getting. So we'd both get a total of about $1500 when she reaches 62.

Do I have this right?

Bonus points:
You get bonus points if you can explain why - according to a calculator I used - she gets MORE than I ever got, when I die. It's about $200/month more - but how/why? So for example if I get $1000 at age 62 and then 10 years later when she reaches 62, she gets around $500... then when I die at age 80 (for purposes of this example), she gets about $1200 - or about $200 more than I was getting, even though - again - she never qualified for benefits under her own account?
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:30 AM
 
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see the thread i started , you have quite a bit of wrong info.

if i file early can i later shift to spousal benefits ?



at 62 if she has her own work record she can only get her own. as per the thread i started it explains how her payment is adjusted when you file.

she can only collect on her own record and amount until you file.

then she gets a bump up in rate per my thread.

survivor benefits are different than social security benefits.

survivor benefits are based on what the higher collecting spouse is getting . if you took it early her survivor benefit starts out based on what you got . then it is reduced further for every year under fra she is. if the calculator showed more and she took survivor benefits early then there is something wrong with the results you got.

if you filed at 62 and she filed at 60 she could see a 48% reduction from what she would have gotten if you filed at fra and she had waited intil her fra for survivor benefits.


survivor benefits always get a cut from the spouses benefit if the widow takes it before their fra. it can't be more than you got unless young kids are involved.

with survivor benefits she could keep her own ss as small as it is until her fra and then switch to 1/2 yours but it will not be more than yours .

Last edited by mathjak107; 02-20-2015 at 08:31 AM..
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Northern panhandle WV
3,007 posts, read 2,169,984 times
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Bonus points, I assume you are talking about added credits? I YOU were to not collect till age 70 you would get added credits for the years between Full retirement age, usally 66 now, and age 70 to the tune of 8% a year increase.
Now your wife would not get any portion of the added credits while you were alive but if you died and if she were full retirement age when she collected survivor benefits, she would get the full amount including those credits, that you were recieving prior to your death. She would no longer get the spousal amount she had been getting.

You also would have to file and suspend at full retirement age in order for her to collect spousal benefits on your account.

Also the 10 year marriage rule is if you are divorced. Marriage must have lasted at least 10 FULL years, if you are still married you only need to be married 9 month to collect on a spouses record, if they have filed already.

Hope that helps with some of your questions
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Carbondale, Illinois
24 posts, read 17,427 times
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I have a question, which I cannot seem to find the answer. My husband receives full social security and is 70. I just started receiving a state pension. I know am eligible for SS and the Windfall (Government Pension Offset) will apply. I am 64, so will wait until 67 to collect, since it will increase, can I currently apply under my husband's social security for about 40% or does it not apply at all, since I get a pension? This is unclear on the social security and AARP sites.
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:59 AM
 
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The Windfall (WEP) and GPO are two separate things. Sounds like you have no or few SS earnings on your own? If so, the GPO is what applies.
IMO, SS explains both pretty clearly. Here's a link to the fact sheets, FAQs, and calculators for both:

Information for Government Employees

I draw a state pension but I also had more than 30 years of "substantial" SS earnings before and after that job, so my SS benefit won't be reduced.
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Old 02-21-2015, 08:36 PM
 
71 posts, read 64,499 times
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Okay I read your link mathjak but it doesn't answer my specific questions and I think that's largely my fault because I didn't write the complete situation in my o.p. so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
see the thread i started , you have quite a bit of wrong info.

if i file early can i later shift to spousal benefits ?

at 62 if she has her own work record she can only get her own. as per the thread i started it explains how her payment is adjusted when you file.

she can only collect on her own record and amount until you file.

then she gets a bump up in rate per my thread.

survivor benefits are different than social security benefits.

survivor benefits are based on what the higher collecting spouse is getting . if you took it early her survivor benefit starts out based on what you got . then it is reduced further for every year under fra she is. if the calculator showed more and she took survivor benefits early then there is something wrong with the results you got.
Okay so the above does not apply to our situation at all. I forgot to mention that I am about to apply for Social Security in a few months, at the age of 62 and 7 months. She will be 51 when I start collecting and she does not now nor may never have enough Social Security points to collect against an account of her own. (We're moving to a foreign country so even if she does work, it won't add to her Social Security account.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
if you filed at 62 and she filed at 60 she could see a 48% reduction from what she would have gotten if you filed at fra and she had waited intil her fra for survivor benefits.

survivor benefits always get a cut from the spouses benefit if the widow takes it before their fra. it can't be more than you got unless young kids are involved.
Then the software I used on the expert site must be wrong or based on wrong information somehow. If I get a chance later, I will post or link to a jpg of it showing that after I die she gets more than I "was" getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
with survivor benefits she could keep her own ss as small as it is until her fra and then switch to 1/2 yours but it will not be more than yours .
No, she will not be eligible for her own Social Security as she didn't work enough here in the USA - unless things change and she starts working at a good job or something, later. But let's say she won't. So let's assume she will live on survivor benefits after I die.

So back to the original questions, this time with a more clear picture :
* I will apply for early Social Security at age 62 and 7 months this year
* She will be 51 when I retire
* She has not earned enough credits to get ANY social security on her own account

So my questions are:
1) Even though she will not have enough credits of her own, she will still get Social Security at age 62 if she so chooses - based on MY Social Security account, and that will be about half of what I am getting? is that correct?
So in effect - if we are still married - we as a married couple will benefit by a 50% increase in Social Security benefits, in effect- as we'll be getting my $1225 plus her $612 - more or less? Do I have this right?

2) Then when I die, she will get bumped up to getting the amount I was getting ($1225/mo) - even though - again - she had no benefit on her own account due to not working enough to get enough points?

So given the above info, now, do I have it right?

THANKS!
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:23 AM
 
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nope , still wrong on every point above .

if she files early at 62 based on your record because she has none of her own she can never get 1/2 your full retirement benefit . she only gets 1/2 your full benefit if she waits until her own fra. if she files early at 62 , 1/2 your full benefit is further reduced by 25% for her life .

So if your full benefit is $2,000, your wife would be able to collect $1,000 at her fra only, her early benefit would be about 750.00 based on your work record ..the age limits and cuts that apply to worker benefits also apply to spousal benefits.

Your wife can:

Take Social Security at age 62. But the 50 percent spousal benefit would be further reduced by about 25 percent for the rest of her life.

or she can wait until her FRA to receive the full spousal benefit. In this case she will receive 50 percent of your full benefit.


this assumes no children are involved that are being cared for.


if you die she gets your reduced benefit that you got for filing early cut again for every year under fra she is. in effect if you file at 62 and die and she files at 60 she gets a 48%

cut from what your full would have been which she would have gotten as a survivor benefit if both of you were fra or older and waited.


whatever you are calculating on is not getting your information correct as the above is exactly how it works.

Last edited by mathjak107; 02-22-2015 at 02:59 AM..
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:33 AM
 
71 posts, read 64,499 times
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Hi mathjak, I don't believe I said anything about "full benefits" anywhere, i.e. benefits at age 66 in my case.

What I am saying is that if I file at 62, right, and I get $1225 a month at age 62...
She files against my account at age 62 herself, then she gets half what I was getting or nearly half? around $612/month? No?

And then if I am still alive, for that time after she is 62 (she's younger than me) we will get my $1225 plus her $612 or so, for a total of around $1837/mo, no?

Then when I die, she gets the amount I started getting at 62 which is $1225, no?

Sorry but I've been reading the social security web site AND doing charts /scenarios at sss and this is what I understand from that.

Nowhere am I talking about "FULL RETIREMENT AGE" benefits. I am going to collect at 62 and my wife is going to collect at 62 (or maybe later, but let's assume 62) based on MY account because she does not/will not have sufficient points to draw off her own account and if she did it would be a very small amount.

Here's my SSS chart that I am confused about because it shows her collecting LESS than half of my amount at 62 but MORE than my account when I die (in this case, figured at my age of 80).
Attached Thumbnails
Question re spouse getting more Social Security than me, based on my account...-social-sec-chart-showing-death-benefit.jpg  
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:35 AM
 
71,520 posts, read 71,694,121 times
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no , her rate is not half of what you are getting. her rate if she has no work history is based on 1/2 of what your full would have been had you waited ..

so it starts at 1/2 your full , less about a 25% penalty for filing early herself at 62 . she never gets half of what you get if she files below her fra. at best if you filed early and she waited to her full she would get 1/2 of what your full would have been . her early payment would be about 460.00

that is 1/2 your 1225 less 25% because she is filing before her own fra. that is about 460.00 not the 615 you thought.

the same rules apply as if she had her own record. she is penalized by filing early herself.

survivor benefits are very different. you can't compare the two.

survivor benefits are based on what you were getting less a penality for every year under fra she files. very different amount from social security. different calculation off a different base for survivor benefits.


a husband filing at 62 and dying and the widow filing at 60 can see a 48% reduction from what her survivor benefit would have been if the husband didn't file early and she didn't file early at 60..

with survivor benefits if the widow waits until her own fra she would get what the husband was getting .

Last edited by mathjak107; 02-27-2015 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:59 AM
 
71 posts, read 64,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
no , her rate is not half of what you are getting. her rate if she has no work history is based on 1/2 of what your full would have been had you waited ..

so it starts at 1/2 your full , less about a 25% penalty for filing early herself at 62 . she never gets half of what you get if she files below her fra. at best if you filed early and she waited to her full she would get 1/2 of what your full would have been . that is about 460.00

the same rules apply as if she had her own record. she is penalized by filing early herself.

survivor benefits are very different. you can't compare the two.

survivor benefits are based on what you were getting less a penality for every year under fra she files. very different amount from social security. different calculation off a different base for survivor benefits.


a husband filing at 62 and dying and the widow filing at 60 can see a 48% reduction from what her survivor benefit would have been if the husband didn't file early.
Hmm, I get what you are saying but it doesn't add up to me per the chart jpg I posted in my last post.

So her rate is based on 1/2 of what my full rate had been had I waited to age 66 which my chart based on earnings up to this year says is $1576. So she'd get 1/2 of that ($788) minus about 25% which would be $465 but the chart shows her as getting $516 - well that's close I guess, so that could be correct then, eh?

Basically the scenario I ran at SSS of me collecting ss at age 62 and 7 months and her later collecting at 62 and 1 month shows this: (this is slightly different than the chart above )

  • Husband begins benefits based on his earnings record in the estimated amount of $1,228 in April 2015 at age 62 and 7 mos.
  • Wife files for benefits in the estimated amount of $516 in December 2025 at age 62 and 1 mos.
  • In September 2032 wife begins survivor benefits in the estimated amount of $1,300.
So even though she files based on my account at age 62 and 1 month and gets $516 at that time (so we get $1744/month as a couple at that time), later when I die she gets $1300 which is more than I ever got even though she applied at 62 just like I did. That part doesn't add up to me but that's what it says at SSS!
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