U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-02-2015, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,744,100 times
Reputation: 32304

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jean_ji View Post
Those who saved and are comfortable are being labeled as braggarts, having rich relatives giving them money etc. by those who cannot afford to retire for whatever reason. Those who cannot afford to retire are being criticized for not being financially prudent or not having the foresight to plan for a different outcome.

With all the animosity on both sides, the retirement board is looking like a stereotypical old person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanama View Post
Hummm. This thread makes me a little sad. Is it really the broad perception that anyone who talks (excitedly as I do often) about retirement plans is a "braggart" and a "bully"? I don't expect that everyone has as much as we are fortunate to have--at this moment, for I am always keenly mindful that there is no such thing as total financial security, careful as we have always been to construct it--and I know that others have much more than we can ever think of having, and I don't envy the latter nor pity the former. I just think we all have different circumstances and are doing the best we can--and CD can be such a rich resource for advice and just sharing ideas no matter what "comfort level" retirement seems to be for each person.

And no, we did not have rich relatives or a hand up in life and I don't really understand anyone needing to imply that must have been the case. We were careful, we were lucky, and we started saving as much as possible very young. We focused on retirement at age 20. We are both anal like that and we married young. We are lucky thatwe and our children have so far been healthy. We are fortunate to live somewhere without major natural disasters. Our timing with real estate has been both careful and lucky. I think most people in our position would agree that but for the grace of God... I don't understand the need to be angry with those who have done well, or to typify their conversations as bragging. ?? Is someone mad that an unforseen financial disaster DIDN'T derail our plans? Isn't that kind of mean spirited too? Hey, I'm a decent person and we've worked hard to get here. Why would it make some people dislike me that the same fickle finger of fate over which I also have no control did NOT (YEEETTTT!!!!) flick me off track? Knock wood, etc.

Should I stop posting because I feel self-conscious that I don't have as much as the next guy, or because I think talking about exciting plans for a comfortable retirement will make others feel bad? Should I be mad at all the people who lived out their lives in a place they loved, because I never did? We win some, we lose some as I see it. Other things may have been sacrificed for what looks like a cushy retirement to a casual observer.

It goes both ways--if there are some people among those who will be retiring comfortably who are uncaring or callous about the plight of those who have less, there are also people among those who have less who are constantly looking to blame others or to chop some people down a few pegs. Just because someone explains the best way to get to a comfortable retirement doesn't mean they are berating those who haven't. I learn a lot from poster on this board who have done well--certainly better than I have done.

The statistics actually very consistently bear out three main reasons people won't have enough to retire--failure to start saving enough, early enough (and we all know the myriad reasons that could occur, but as Americans we are as a group very instant-gratification focused), medical bankruptcy, and divorce. The second two can indeed happen to anyone. But let's be real and admit that a fair chunk of people who won't have comfortable retirements could probably have saved more at some point. Big deal. Water under the bridge. Let's all find ways within our means to be as comfortable as possible, and help the next generations do a better job of looking ahead and delaying gratification, or of bolstering against financial disaster as well as possible--but most of all of being flexible enough to find happiness in simpler things than overseas travel and second homes.

I love reading NMSFM's posts, for example. I hope to have more resources, but if I don't I HOPE to be as resourceful and positive as she's been in this process as I've read her story. I have learned so much from her, and she and many others on this board have helped me prioritize needs vs wants in my own retirement. I never assume that the situation we're in now is permanent, and I always have backup plan, lol. A roof over my head and some hot tea, is what I've always said. Being frugal is my natural state.

There are always trolls on message boards, so saying people are afraid to post because someone might be mean seems a little bit odd. Sometimes I think it might be more that they just don't like to hear what others are saying. I ignore people that I know are always stirring the pot. I'd expect folks on the retirement board, most of you older than I am, to have the wisdom to do the same. This board is for sharing experience, wisdom (which some apparently see as bragging), excitement or trepidation at the next phase of life. Don't let's get all weird about it.
Jean_ji and Montanama, let me add a third voice to the basic idea in both your posts. The nastiness coming from both sides has been noteworthy and discouraging. Lots of long term resentment coming out in this thread, some of it understandable. In the long run, it may be a good thing to clear the air - at least that is my hope.

To the OP: Look at how many posts in your thread in such a short time. Proof that you had a great thread idea which tapped into many people's concerns and encouraged them to come out of the woodwork. Well done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-02-2015, 05:26 PM
 
4,443 posts, read 2,616,298 times
Reputation: 10357
My father, when ever asked how much he made, would repy "THAT is between me, my employer and the IRS".
That is a response for me.
Fact is, until everyone retires and lives/dies, NOONE will know if they will have enough.
Those with fancy salaries, big mansion like homes and expensive new cars every three years in their driveway and a pension to boot, MAY LOOSE that pension! MAY loose their house when the expensive maintenance, utilities and taxes eat up their pension. and they may come to value a car thatt is 5, 8 10 years old when they don't drive to work too much.

I worked more than one job all my life {always at least 2 jobs at the same time}, and even did college, but the ONLY company I ever worked for that had a pesnion plan, got gobbled up by a larger corp, and the pensions were bought out and stopped.*POOF* *GONE* Just like that.

I have, for various reasons, started over 3 times in my life. I always worked hard. I had to start over. NO choice. But I don't whine and whimper here about it, I may mention it in a post like this one, but whatever happens will happen.

I know what I'd LIKE to retire to, but doubt it will happen. I don't look there, and All my pre-laid plans in the past have failed me, so I expect it to happen again. I/we may be able to retire nicely, or I/we may not.
My spouse currently works 2 jobs, we have auto deduct for IRAs and investment accounts, a little debt we are gaining on, and will come out OK.
I am medically retired, and have a small income my taxes at 2 or 3 concurrent jobs all my working life have paid for. We don't expect much, and may be surprised when the time comes. My spouse expects to work until 70, and If I can figure it out, and get someone to hire me back as disabled, I am contemplating what I can do now. Even sitting at the computer is stressful for longer than about 2 hours.

Oh, and I go in day after tomorrow for shoulder surgery, and then in 2-3 months, have the other one done, will need time to recouperate, so I will have to delay work plans for awhile. My spouse may need a hip replacement sooner than later, and the medical bills for last year were high and ate up 54% of our gross income {my spouse and I both had surgeries, I had multiple and my spouse's insurance has very high deductible}! HEck, insurance premiums alone eat up a full 15% of our gross income, let alone the deductibles and co-pays and ISN'T PAID FOR by some fancy company. In fact my spouse's main job is a state adjunct job with little in the way of benefits, a cheaper way out for the state. ANd The "affordable care act" ISN'T so affordable.
Oh, and lest you think we are drawing off the "dole"...NOT! WE don't qualify, our income is too high.

DO I complain to anyone who will listen? no. Because those in the Mc Mansions will find fault somehow.
Life dealt us some blows, its HOW WE HANDLE THOSE that COUNT!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,982,141 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Jean_ji and Montanama, let me add a third voice to the basic idea in both your posts. The nastiness coming from both sides has been noteworthy and discouraging. Lots of long term resentment coming out in this thread, some of it understandable. In the long run, it may be a good thing to clear the air - at least that is my hope.

To the OP: Look at how many posts in your thread in such a short time. Proof that you had a great thread idea which tapped into many people's concerns and encouraged them to come out of the woodwork. Well done.
I have not seen a lot of nastiness, really. Isolated comments that were. I have seen a lot of insensitivity, toward others' situations, but I would not call the insensitivity nastiness. More like tunnel vision.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,890 posts, read 25,331,777 times
Reputation: 26388
I also like hearing everyone's perspective. And I expect some to better and some to be worse off than me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 06:32 PM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,949,102 times
Reputation: 3454
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I love your post. My theory is, as you suggested, that most people who are not rich are afraid to admit it because they don't want to be bashed. I've seen it happen too many times. Someone will come on and ask for help with subsidized housing or how to get Medicaid and people attack them instead of helping them. Some people just never learned good manners, it seems.

Then there are the people who come here merely to brag--about their homes (that are usually too huge for them and they will probably live to regret), or all their expensive cars or luxurious vacations or expensive possessions. It's one thing to mention it in passing as a necessary part of the conversation but to make it center stage can be hurtful to those who do not have as much and can make it daunting for the less fortunate to post about their own lives.

Back when I worked in a public library there was a book called, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." I never read it but this topic made me think of it. Most of the time when someone retires and is not wealthy, it is due to illness, divorce, job loss, or other instances beyond their control. Leave it to the bullies to beat them when they are down. Thanks for your honesty, NoMoreSnowForMe.
I agree with this, there is a lot of "I've got mine, you must be dumb if you don't have yours" kind of talking down to the less fortunate on most if not all finance/retirement related forums.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 06:34 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,492,863 times
Reputation: 29076
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
I also like hearing everyone's perspective. And I expect some to better and some to be worse off than me.
That's the nature of the beast as those of us who are and have actually been retired can attest to. Everything else is nothing more than hope and conjecture. Realistically, none of know what's to come until it hits home so you do the best you can to prepare and hope it's enough. If you fall sort you drop back and punt. That too is the nature of the beast.

♫♪ Merrily we roll along, roll along, roll along... ♪♫
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,890 posts, read 25,331,777 times
Reputation: 26388
I've been getting an education lately. I have always worked and been well paid, lots of bennies, etc. And just like many people out there I was always quite certain and more than a little smug about people who had less than me. After all if I worked this hard to get what I got, so can you.

My SO's cousin retired and has moved in with us till he can find a place to live. He lived all his life in NYC and he has never driven a car. He was always an apartment dweller and he has never owned property. He started working when he was 13 and worked all his life as a cook, server, and restaurant manager. He is a High School grad. Never went to college because his father died when he was young, forcing his family into poverty. That fickle finger pushed his button one night when he was walking home in the rain. He fell and permanently damaged his knee and went on to get traumatic degenerative arthritis. He has to use a cane and a knee support even after surgery to fix as much of the damage as possible.

One fall and WHAM. He can never again do the work he had done all his life. It wasn't physically possible. So he did what he had to do. He applied for disability, Medicaid, and SNAP. And he got them. Then the day came when he could get Social Security. He has that plus a small union pension. Total just under 1K per month. He has to wait to get low income senior housing here in Las Vegas. He has Medicare, and Medicaid as well.

He has better medical than I do! I have no medical.

Restaurant work is hard. And my recent excursions into subsistence level jobs taught me fast that those jobs are harder than the jobs that pay well. He worked hard for decades and now he really has nothing. He decided to move to Vegas because the COL is much lower than NYC.

He will survive but it's no picnic. But guess what, he is happy and does the best he can with what he has.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 07:07 PM
 
2,421 posts, read 3,725,330 times
Reputation: 3455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Jean_ji and Montanama, let me add a third voice to the basic idea in both your posts. The nastiness coming from both sides has been noteworthy and discouraging. Lots of long term resentment coming out in this thread, some of it understandable. In the long run, it may be a good thing to clear the air - at least that is my hope.

To the OP: Look at how many posts in your thread in such a short time. Proof that you had a great thread idea which tapped into many people's concerns and encouraged them to come out of the woodwork. Well done.
Yes, "come out of the woodwork" is right. Seems they are here after all. Good to hear from everyone. It just didn't add up to me. Personally I think many are right in their assessment though. There does seem to be a prevalence of "personal responsibility and accountability at all costs" attitude and a tendency to throw everyone in the same basket that did not meet the challenge, as if everyone was a welfare queen, which may not reflect reality. Not all the time of course, but perhaps enough to scare away some from posting.

Truthfully if I was disabled and mentioned on here about assistance I was getting and someone commented "Your Welcome", I would want to reach through my computer screen and Slap Them Silly.(and I'm a pacifist)

But not having a million or four million saved does not translate into having "nada". That is going from one extreme to the next. Just having $200,000 saved along with a social security check may not do the trick either. In fact you may be better off having nothing, as at least then you would qualify for assistance.

It also can depend on whether you are a couple or not. Two social security checks are much more sustainable than one, so a single person will have a much tougher road. Just one more social security check can be the equivalent of $350 to $450,000 dollars. And two saving in their 401K plans will add up a lot faster than one.

Last edited by modhatter; 03-02-2015 at 08:02 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,618 posts, read 9,687,274 times
Reputation: 10980
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I have not seen a lot of nastiness, really. Isolated comments that were. I have seen a lot of insensitivity, toward others' situations, but I would not call the insensitivity nastiness. More like tunnel vision.
I agree. I was trying to find posts that I thought might show some "nastiness" but didn't find any. This has been a really enlightening and good thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2015, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,618 posts, read 9,687,274 times
Reputation: 10980
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
I also like hearing everyone's perspective. And I expect some to better and some to be worse off than me.
That's how I look at it. Everybody is different and has a different story. I'm glad I'm not "worse off", but I have been in the past. Which is why I work so hard to make sure...as much as possible...that it doesn't happen again. I'm pretty sure most of us do the same to the best of our abilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top