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but by the same token many situations were the result of poor choices and bad decisions in life . it wasn't the final act that did these folks in but their own choices leading up to it.
how many who ended up being disabled before full retirement had cell phones , cable tv , drove new cars instead of private disability insurance that pays 80% of their salary until fra before they had any issues surfacing ?
no need to tell us about the exceptions , of course they exist . but the fact is many situations while they appear random and unavoidable were just the result of choice's made earlier.
because some of you seem to have missed this.
the topic is "Where are the people who don't have enough to retire". I don't think judging those people is appropriate here. And we are here, if you mean the ones who don't have a million in the bank or whatever. Perhaps the OP just missed us.
Not meaning to pick on you mathjak but you do seem to have an axe to grind in this thread
MJ is a good guy who has a passion for financial security not just for him but for others. Some of his extra activities and work put him in the position of being able to offer and provide retirement advice for coworkers to the extent they were interested and he continues that here. Give him a number of years into retirement and I will be interested to see how he progresses. On another and more serious note as to why we have such angst and conflict on this topic. In fact two points. I will try not to be political but because of some peoples employment status it will be hard to avoid it.
1. We have several very high ranking public officials who are consumed by the topic of income inequality and seem to be on a campaign to punish those with higher incomes and transfer that wealth to others. In the minds of many a Joe Average the bad guy is not just the top one percent but in fact probably the top 20 percent. Expect to see those people fight back and not only defend themselves but attack the broader group of people attacking them. Unfortunately folks who have said nothing negative about them can be a target but collateral damage is common in warfare and are current fascination with class warfare is no different.
2. Think back to high school/middle school and the pecking order of social status, pranks, bullying etc. Jocks and cheerleaders ruled and the more nerdy, geeky sorts were there victims. Flash ahead to middle age and retirement age and understand that there may be good reason why he former meek now secure are telling what they believe to be in some cases their former tormentors ********* it was your decision to party and drink and not take your studies serious. Remember that time in the hall way? Suffer and leave me alone.
We as retirees/near retirees are a reflection of our current times and previous histories. If we can't tone down the rhetoric in the halls of government will we be able to in this forum?
Of course this forum sounds like high school and our national political discourse. Why would we expect otherwise?
Please no one respond to my following comment except MathJak as it is intended for him and no one else!
Yup Bro you did build it yourself so be proud and selective about where to share it.
MJ is a good guy who has a passion for financial security not just for him but for others. Some of his extra activities and work put him in the position of being able to offer and provide retirement advice for coworkers to the extent they were interested and he continues that here. Give him a number of years into retirement and I will be interested to see how he progresses. On another and more serious note as to why we have such angst and conflict on this topic. In fact two points. I will try not to be political but because of some peoples employment status it will be hard to avoid it.
1. We have several very high ranking public officials who are consumed by the topic of income inequality and seem to be on a campaign to punish those with higher incomes and transfer that wealth to others. In the minds of many a Joe Average the bad guy is not just the top one percent but in fact probably the top 20 percent. Expect to see those people fight back and not only defend themselves but attack the broader group of people attacking them. Unfortunately folks who have said nothing negative about them can be a target but collateral damage is common in warfare and are current fascination with class warfare is no different.
2. Think back to high school/middle school and the pecking order of social status, pranks, bullying etc. Jocks and cheerleaders ruled and the more nerdy, geeky sorts were there victims. Flash ahead to middle age and retirement age and understand that there may be good reason why he former meek now secure are telling what they believe to be in some cases their former tormentors ********* it was your decision to party and drink and not take your studies serious. Remember that time in the hall way? Suffer and leave me alone.
We as retirees/near retirees are a reflection of our current times and previous histories. If we can't tone down the rhetoric in the halls of government will we be able to in this forum?
Of course this forum sounds like high school and our national political discourse. Why would we expect otherwise?
Please no one respond to my following comment except MathJak as it is intended for him and no one else!
Yup Bro you did build it yourself so be proud and selective about where to share it.
Did Mathjak appoint you as his attorney and spokesman, or did you appoint yourself? I can't remember any other instance of a single poster becoming the center of debate like this.
Please let me offer my thanks to those who took the time to comment on my post in a kind and encouraging manner and to those who repped me, some with sincere comments that I truly appreciated! Because I am so often alone, I can feel like no one hears or cares----thank you much for doing so! Again, I am so glad that I can participate on this forum. I do enjoy it!
Please let me offer my thanks to those who took the time to comment on my post in a kind and encouraging manner and to those who repped me, some with sincere comments that I truly appreciated! Because I am so often alone, I can feel like no one hears or cares----thank you much for doing so! Again, I am so glad that I can participate on this forum. I do enjoy it!
I think your story was the best and most on point posting of this whole entire thread!
An astute analysis, Northwesty. The people who are a bit timid by nature are not going to post if they think they are going to get flamed for it. And that goes beyond retirement financial questions. A couple of months ago in the Chat Thread, a newcomer was told, "Start your own thread". The newcomer answered something like "I can see I don't belong here - I'll go back to lurking". I defended and encouraged the newcomer, whose user name I've forgotten. But my encouragement was of no avail - I didn't see that person back.
Even people like me who enjoy vigorous debate and have fairly tough hides can become temporarily discouraged when things get gratuitously mean, nasty, hostile, and insulting. So often those who sling mud are saying more about themselves than about the targets of their mud. But you're right - many posters are not willing to take the chance of being dumped on.
At your suggestion I went back and re-read the "Means Testing" thread, not every word in every post, but looking at every post. And yes, there were some over-the-top comments as well as people rebutting those comments. I was happy to note that I had staked out a middle ground in that particular debate.
Great insights and supportive as you always are! I want to say I often temper my inclination to get overly aggressive from observing your well mannered approach!
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