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Old 03-07-2015, 05:02 PM
 
71,508 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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there are loads of white papers on the subject for those who want to research the option.

there are likely other things those on limited savings with short falls can do as well.

i don't know all the ins and outs of making do on such limited amounts as all my research and learning goes in to the area of retirement where i fit in. although it appears i know alot i only know what i know which is basically what i need to know for my own retirement.

but i am sure there are loads of ideas for developing a reliable income stream on smaller savings and filling those savings short falls i just don't know enough about the different methods pro's use ...
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:13 PM
 
71,508 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
the deferred annuities are not the same . those fidelity ones are regular deferred annuities and even though lower cost are still way to expensive. they get a thumbs down from me and i can't recommend them .

fidelity does not offer true longevity inssurance as far as i know.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-07-2015 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
There are people who have no clue how they will eat and pay bills in 25 years. That's the whole point. There are people who have shortfalls in savings who don't have spare cash to buy thing like the longevity insurance you mentioned. Just don't have the money.
then i guess it just doesn't apply to them and that is the point i keep saying over and over. there are millions of other folks out there who can't or won't retire because the numbers do not work using conventional planning tools and they do have savings they intend to llive off . but there are products that can alter those numbers and make a tough situation and an obstacle to retiring a do. .

no money= no choices in life when it comes to retirement planning and working the income side .

the problem with these solutons and discussions is they cannot fit every situation. you will always have people dragging some example or straw man situation in to the equation where it can't be done.

not sure why they bother but such is life in a forum. i guess they get a certain picture in their mind and they forget that picture is only one of many types of situations so they can't see any further than the example they have in mind.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-07-2015 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,969,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the deferred annuities are not the same . those fidelity ones are regular deferred annuities and even though lower cost are still way to expensive. they get a thumbs down from me and i can't recommend them .

fidelity does not offer true longevity inssurance as far as i know.
The companies they compare on their website do: MassMutual, MetLife etc.

I only bring it up as a remedial way for those who feel they haven't saved enough for retirement. There are arguments against annuities (Marotta, etc).
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:52 PM
 
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yes , the other companies offer them.

but as i say over and over the only two types to ever consider are immediate or the longevity type.

everything else is to expensive and to complex and not needed , except for the two i mentioned above . unless you maxed out your 401k and ira there is zero reasion to buy any deferred income or variable annuity product.

david marotta should never write about annuity's. he knows little and has no idea in his articles about how they are even utilized today. they should forbid him to write any articles pertaining to any products until he gets an education in them.

if you want to get educated read the works of dr moshe milevsky , dr wade pfau , bill bernstein , michael kitces or blanchette.

these guys know what they are talking about and HAVE THE DATA , FACTS AND FIGURES TO GO WITH IT.

but this is another topic , not really for here. you need money to get involved with these other products.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-07-2015 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:05 PM
 
71,508 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
looking at bank rate monitor an example given is a 50 year old who pays about one years worth of draw will get at age 85 that amount for the rest of their lives.


that is a pretty good deal since if you will be setting up what you have for 30 years of income.

you can spend just one years worth and be covered forever for the same amount .

that frees up lot of savings for deployment earlier. .
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: SW US
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I always wonder if the company will still be around when I'm ready to collect.
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,013 posts, read 54,523,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
then i guess it just doesn't apply to them and that is the point i keep saying over and over. there are millions of other folks out there who can't or won't retire because the numbers do not work using conventional planning tools and they do have savings they intend to llive off . but there are products that can alter those numbers and make a tough situation and an obstacle to retiring a do. .

no money= no choices in life when it comes to retirement planning and working the income side .

the problem with these solutons and discussions is they cannot fit every situation. you will always have people dragging some example or straw man situation in to the equation where it can't be done.

not sure why they bother but such is life in a forum. i guess they get a certain picture in their mind and they forget that picture is only one of many types of situations so they can't see any further than the example they have in mind.
I agree, and be clear, mathjak, I've seen you around City-Data enough to know that you're not a "let-em-eat-cake" kind of jerk. I'm not looking to argue with you. Besides, while I'll never reach your level of wealth, I'm exceedingly superior to you in terms of spelling and punctuation, so you can't make me feel inferior anyway.

I think there are a couple of conversations going on here, and ne'er the twain shall meet. The bulk of the people that the OP is addressing are silent because no matter what wonderful solutions and products are out there for so many others, none of them are applicable to their situation, because, get this--they don't have any frickin' spare money. They might even be deeply in debt, as I am, and they may not have the resources for a viable plan to get out of debt in a reasonable number of years, as I do.

Don't take this personally, because it's not meant that way, but someone like you probably has no place in a conversation with people who need to know how to survive retirement on nothing, like the "shoestring" thread people, or others who might be able to get there but who want to bounce ideas off of people. Investments aren't going to work for many of us because we have no spare money. We need ideas as to post-retirement career possibilities or reducing debt strategies. You just cannot relate.

In another post, you dismissed these people as the ones who will never be able to retire. Well, that's not quite true. They HAVE to retire eventually. They will be too old to get hired or have medical issues that will prevent them from working.

I'd mentioned in an earlier post that I would like to start a thread for the people who don't know how they are going to survive in retirement, or who face real obstacles in getting to the place where they can retire. People's whose solutions are not going to involve returns on investments or long-term-care financial products, because they have no investments and they have no money to buy any sort of insurance for the future. Those people need advice, too, but from others who are in survival mode, not from people who are comfortable.

I'll give you an example. I have a friend in my condo complex. She is 74 years old. She has some health problems but functions pretty well. She was a SAHM widowed in her mid-forties left with three kids. She worked as a CNA and a bookkeeper and some other jobs. Social Security is all she gets, and it barely covers the mortgage on her condo that she bought 15 years ago on a short sale.

So how does she survive? She takes advantage of whatever programs are available to her; for example, she gets help with her heating bill from a state program for impoverished seniors, she gets a tax rebate from another state program for seniors below a certain income level, and she goes out five mornings a week and helps an octogenarian bathe and dress his wife, who has dementia, for which he pays her about $200 a week cash. She just started working two evenings a week for him, too, because his daughter who normally helped at night had other family obligations.

This is how people survive. Someone might want to know what someone like my friend does because maybe they are in a similar position. And the whole point of the OP is that THESE people are out there, in droves, but they might not feel comfortable posting in the Retirement forum because so much of the conversation centers around investments and financial strategies that are completely irrelevant to them.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:35 PM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I agree. There are an awful lot of posters who refuse to recognize that the only reason they're comfortable in their retirement is because the Fickle Finger of Fate didn't push them into the financial toilet at some point in their lives despite all their "hard work" and "planning".

There's a thread open right now in this forum that's exactly like this right now... "Means Testing". The gist of most of the posts there is that retirees who are struggling economically have only themselves to blame because they didn't "plan" well enough for their retirement.
And the other side of that is a lot of us who have more of a planner's mindset are ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY FRUSTRATED with people in our lives who simply WOULD NOT make the effort to save and plan. I have TALKED AND TALKED AND WHEEDLED AND CAJOLED UNTIL I WAS BLUE IN THE FACE WITH SO MANY PEOPLE I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU. Sorry, but I think those people outnumber the people who did most things right (no one does everything right, after all), and ended up impoverished or semi-impoverished in old age.

What often is interpreted as the saver/planner people being judgemental is, at least some of the time, just sheer frustration at trying to help people who refused our help at every turn. Kind of like trying to help an alcoholic or drug addict who doesn't want the help.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:45 PM
 
8,115 posts, read 8,620,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
dave - the disco comment ?

well i was a pro drummer and the handwritting was on the wall. the days of live music were numbered and the age of the dj and disco music was coming alive and my career path was likely not going to cut it.

my dad was a drummer and i wanted to follow his path.

sooooooo with no skills and no degree in anything i had to think long and hard about what i could do where i would not get obsoleted again.

so running through everything i could think of i ended up seeing this guy on tv in a white coat advertising a new school apex tech.

i figured most folks would rebuild and tinker with anything but commercial refrigeration and air conditiong equip. seemed to be off limits.

so i figured what the heck , i don't know a thing about it and i borrowed the money from the school and i gave it a go.


well that kicked off my career path and i just migrated for 40 years to different specialties.

but it all goes back to disco and dj's hurting my intented career path.

it was a wise choice as we still got to do weekend weddings and parties but there was not nearly as much work anymore as it took to make a full time gig a reliable choice.

having grown up in a nyc housing project there was just no way i would chance not meeting the financial goals i set as going back to live there was not going to be an option if i could help it.


i always wondered what my career path would have been if it wasn't for the disco music and dj scene causing that change in plans.
Maybe you would have ended up as Keith Moon's replacement.
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