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Old 03-08-2015, 03:01 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,138 posts, read 23,075,126 times
Reputation: 35403

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Well, OP, I believe you have your answer. And I don't think this thread will end until Mathjak gets the last word. So, I will do my part, and say thank you for a great idea for a thread.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Out West
22,808 posts, read 16,883,479 times
Reputation: 26338
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
And the other side of that is a lot of us who have more of a planner's mindset are ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY FRUSTRATED with people in our lives who simply WOULD NOT make the effort to save and plan. I have TALKED AND TALKED AND WHEEDLED AND CAJOLED UNTIL I WAS BLUE IN THE FACE WITH SO MANY PEOPLE I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU. Sorry, but I think those people outnumber the people who did most things right (no one does everything right, after all), and ended up impoverished or semi-impoverished in old age.

What often is interpreted as the saver/planner people being judgemental is, at least some of the time, just sheer frustration at trying to help people who refused our help at every turn. Kind of like trying to help an alcoholic or drug addict who doesn't want the help.
This is the kind of post that makes those of us who are not anywhere near retirement age, but are looking for what to do, NOT want to ask any questions. With this type of attitude, it turns people away, it does NOT make people come forward to ask: "So, what do you suggest that I do to (fill in the blank)?"

If you think you know all there is to know, try a different approach. Lambasting people makes those of us seeking information who see that feel like we are approaching a rabid dog.

If people are so "POSITIVELY FRUSTRATED" and have "WHEEDLED AND CAJOLED UNTIL" they are "BLUE IN THE FACE", maybe they need to take a step back, go take a nap, and try again when they aren't so worked up. There's plenty of people who are genuinely seeking answers. Trashing on them is not how you get anyone to listen.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:09 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 2,944,820 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
sorry , but like bringing fire to the natives i try to help , educate a bit and hopefully bring whatever i can to to the table to make folks a bit more educated on retirement planning of all levels..

I PASS ON THE THOUGHTS AND RESEARCH OF SOME OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET IN THJAT AREA.

if it apply's great , if not then don't read what i post . it is a simple solution.

you may want to do things your way , thats great but that does not speak for everyone out there .
I think most people appreciate the effort you have gone to over the years, summarizing and consolidating information. It is clear to me you like learning about financial matters and do not mind passing that info along.

I get that people in different circumstances cannot benefit from such information or in some cases find it highlights their own lack of a deeper financial security. There are certainly a lot of a-holes around to vent one's spleen upon, I simply cannot see how you are one of the one's who deserves a ration of pooh.

Don't let it get to you. Keep up the good work.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:12 AM
 
71,980 posts, read 72,020,102 times
Reputation: 49559
it never gets to me , believe me. if folks want to learn the info is there , if they have no interest or it doesn't apply they are free to skip it.
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Old 03-08-2015, 04:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,856 posts, read 19,965,031 times
Reputation: 23320
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
that is why you have a wonderful button called ignore. why would you continue to read the posts you don't want to know about ?

i know i certainly wouldn't bother to keep replying to posts to just point out how it doesn't apply to me

if it isn't a post i have interest in i move on.
What we've been trying to suggest is that you might skip a thread and move on when the topic of the thread isn't something which you have knowledge of (which you admitted) and isn't pertinent and you (and others) turn it into yet another how to accumulate for retirement or stretch your money, it's no longer a thread for those for which it was intended and that is possibly one good answer as to "where they are".
You've offered excellent advice many times but just maybe every thread that has the word 'money' in it isn't where this kind of advice is applicable and is, indeed, off topic.
I told myself I was done last night but hope maybe this one last post explains it a little more that your advice is appreciated and welcome...just not all the time and in all situations.
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Old 03-08-2015, 04:47 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,893 posts, read 8,685,228 times
Reputation: 8439
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
What we've been trying to suggest is that you might skip a thread and move on when the topic of the thread isn't something which you have knowledge of (which you admitted) and isn't pertinent and you (and others) turn it into yet another how to accumulate for retirement or stretch your money, it's no longer a thread for those for which it was intended and that is possibly one good answer as to "where they are".
Okay well yes that makes sense, but I think some folks were saying that even when it is something of interest and something for which there is some advice to give, it would perhaps best to get right to the advice and skip anything that smells like recriminations.
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:02 AM
 
975 posts, read 1,099,393 times
Reputation: 1479
I agree with and appreciate your comments.

esp. this "Part of what is needed is a better understanding among those who would want to be helpful what is helpful in such situations. As you alluded to, sometimes it isn't all about money."

Sometimes in difficult situations empathy is very important.
If a person is in bad health, or in bad financial circumstances, there may not be anything that a friend or acquaintance can do.

But we can always offer concern, listening, empathy.
Some people can't handle distress, so they turn away.

But I don't mind if someone is ill, and they want to "complain". I can listen. And sometimes that alone is a big help.
And also acknowledging that the other person is in a bad situation.
Some people want to pretend that everything is wonderful, in this "best of all possible worlds".
Speaking for myself, if I am in a bad way, I much prefer the person who will say, "I'm sorry things are not going well for you right now." instead of the person who wants to be all sunny and smiles and ignore the fact that I'm in pain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
I agree. I've noted repeatedly in this forum a distinct callous regard toward those who's luck didn't pan out - demonization of the lack of success, and lack of helpfulness toward those so affected. I think that's not unique to this forum, though. I think there is a pervasive neglect toward the hard situations, and often including blaming the victim. It is easier to ignore or deny the legitimacy of the hard situations than it is to care about them and try to find solutions for them. It is much easier to turn one's attentions solely to the easy situations or those just a bit off target needing only minor adjustment.

To be fair, a lot of the hard situations are actually closer to impossible in the context of individual assistance - they are beyond the scope of any micro-adjustment to remedy. It is human nature to want to avoid admitting the limitations of our own helpfulness, so perhaps that drives some to demonize those who put the helper in a situation where they cannot see how to help. Part of what is needed is a better understanding among those who would want to be helpful what is helpful in such situations. As you alluded to, sometimes it isn't all about money, and so helpfulness for the "impossible" situations would be different than for someone who perhaps needs to change their asset allocation by 5% - that helpfulness being not necessarily investing advice.

Yes, true, but it really doesn't matter why people find themselves in the situations they're in. They're there. I'm sure you agree that that's all that really matters in this context.

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Old 03-08-2015, 06:05 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,764 posts, read 7,844,152 times
Reputation: 13083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
The only thing I would say, but you know this already, and that's the idea that having as little debt as possible sure makes those resources go further.
Yes, thanks.

I have zero debt.

No mortgage. No car payment. No credit card debt.

The only thing that will eventually kill me are the real estate taxes. Before they get to the point of being unaffordable, I plan to sell my house and move to another, less expensive house with lower taxes.

I've already been educating myself on where those areas are in New Jersey.
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Old 03-08-2015, 06:15 AM
 
29,846 posts, read 34,929,245 times
Reputation: 11776
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Redistribution is a most interesting concept. It will be most interesting to see who at this stage has amassed a fortune winds up on Medicaid in order to stay in their posh nursing home. Works at both ends.
Are you bashing people who are trying to save foe their latte life medical needs rather than being dependent on the government right from the start? Come on NEG you really? Not sure you meant what I am reading.
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Old 03-08-2015, 07:52 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 2,944,820 times
Reputation: 2629
Medicaid pays for posh nursing homes? In that case, why all the angst?
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