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Old 03-07-2015, 03:08 PM
 
10,812 posts, read 8,054,817 times
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Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Just a observation and question but isn't the caregiving forum self selecting? The Village movement is helping to facilitate support for those not near family.
I'm a fan of the Village movement but for the most part it provides only social support and information about resources. Highly likely too that it will be geographically wide-spread during our lifetime.
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Old 03-07-2015, 03:28 PM
 
1,734 posts, read 1,947,792 times
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Originally Posted by northwesty View Post
So just to be clear, if a state government takes over the management and expense of your care if your are demented and unable to care for yourself...... you are under their "jackboot?"

Fair observation! I am under their jackboot when I am under surveillance and compelled to move regardless of whether I want to do so. Living outside of the nanny state framework is more difficult - requires more thought, more planning, more attention to detail, more ENERGY.

In my case, I have many of the critical items tied down, thanks to the wonders of modern technology and a really, really trustworthy guardian once that becomes a requirement. We've got a tradition of taking care of our own.

Thankfully, I have minimum requirements for comfort (and if I'm demented, that doesn't matter anyway, lol!) - I'll be quite comfy in a granny shack in the yard, watching Oprah reruns. Or whatever.

Worthwhile question.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,964,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia 914 View Post
I think aging-in-place is one of the best ideas that's come up in recent years.
Just because a person reaches a certain age (whatever that age is considered to be), they shouldn't have to give up their independence, familiar surroundings, etc., and live in a long-term care facility or even an assisted living arrangement. For many, it's not just a matter of homesickness, it's a matter of personal dignity- not having supervision when it's not necessary, and not living on someone else's terms and schedules.
If it is indeed "independence." Many elders maintain their "personal dignity" on the aching backs of adult kids.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
2,636 posts, read 1,542,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia 914 View Post
I think aging-in-place is one of the best ideas that's come up in recent years.
Just because a person reaches a certain age (whatever that age is considered to be), they shouldn't have to give up their independence, familiar surroundings, etc., and live in a long-term care facility or even an assisted living arrangement.
For many, it's not just a matter of homesickness, it's a matter of personal dignity- not having supervision when it's not necessary, and not living on someone else's terms and schedules.

I worked in a nursing home, and as a home health aide, and it was quite clear which elderly folks were happiest. Even the nicest facilities aren't "home."
I don't understand why this is even in question. An elderly person, as long as they are mentally competent, has every right to lead -- and finish -- their life as they see fit. Its up to them to decide what they can and can't do or afford.

Is it too awful to suggest that elderly people are just like the rest of us? That they are sometimes capable of being self-centered and of testing their family members' limits? To be more generous, some want to have it both ways, they want to live at home but are frightened to do so, and want family members to prop them up.

I have an 86 year old aunt who is a serious hoarder, and is literally risking her life living by herself. She refused my help in cleaning out her place. I found her an assisted living facility that she could afford and she hated it -- demanded to go home after only a few days. Obviously, her emotional condition affected her decision, but she is legally competent, and so I felt had to honor her decision. She then asked that my wife and I leave our home and our friends and move 1000 miles to be near her so we could help her out at home. We declined, because compassion is not martyrdom.

I realized that we could not control her life, but then nor did we have to let her control ours. Some might call this being cruel or uncaring -- I called it having mutual respect.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,541,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanama View Post
I think part of what the article addresses is this mindset that aging in place, meaning staying in one's own home as one becomes infirm, has become the accepted preferable choice, so much so that many will not even consider the alternative. That going into a "home" is a punishment akin to death itself, and that's how just about every boomer I know sees it.

Part of what the article is suggesting is a need for revisioning that preference on the individual level--that we have been sold the idea that aging in our own homes is the goal, and "ending up" in a care facility is a failure.

For myself I don't see that as the case. At the point that I can't be safely in my home, I don't have a problem with finding an alternative. As the article points out, I might have a problem finding an affordable alternative, and that's something that we as a society just MUST get to work on, creatively.

I am all about home and being where I'm comfortable, but I have cared for my elderly grandma in my home and seen the limitations, felt the impact on my own life. It was doable. It would be doable, and desirable, for many. But the whole thing came about because A) She was INAPPROPRIATELY aging in her own home, with no help coming in except for her elderly sister (with her own issues) and her neices (with their own lives and issues). She was malnourished and when she did have emergencies refused to press her "button" for fear they'd come and take her away. So she laid on the floor for hours or days more than once after falling.

Is this what we mean by aging in place?

And how did she come to stay with me? One of her sons wanted her to live in an assisted living facility. The other insisted she'd be fine coming to stay at his house on the fold-out bed. There she was in tears begging not to be put in a "home". She had never even SEEN an assisted living facility, had no idea what it would be like, but had this idea in her head that a "home" is a fate worth than death. We had the space, we retrofitted it to be accessible, and here she stayed until finally going to live with one of her sons in a more appropriate place. She is happy, I don't know about him, lol.

Anyway, I think that's the mindset the article is talking about--that we have this idea that it's all or nothing, that having to go to some "home" is to be desperately avoided. We need to start opening our minds to the possibility that there will come a time when we can't care for ourselves to some degree or another and that in fact there may be BETTER places to be than our own homes when it comes to daily quality of life. What are the options at that point, and how do we combine some joy of living, as Rosemary explored above, with keeping ourselves "safe", with financial feasibility?
That is a brilliant post. You are so right; boomers DO have to get over the idea that there is nothing in between staying in an inappropriate "home" or going to a nursing facility where they will be tethered to a bed and sit out their days staring at FOX News on the TV.

I know so many widows who are rambling around in houses that are far, far too large for them. They are unable to keep up the house itself, let alone the surrounding land, so the entire property loses value they could have had if they cashed out the minute they could no longer keep up with maintenance. The community would be better off, too. So many neighborhoods deteriorate when they are populated by a majority of elderly people. The elders throw away their money on over-priced utilities because their homes are poorly insulated or paying other people to deal with emergencies like a leaking roof. Aging in place is a poor financial choice for so many people. And as you so astutely put it, most of these people don't have ANY idea what their alternatives are. They just have biases that are, in many cases, totally unfounded.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
2,636 posts, read 1,542,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
Aging in place is a poor financial choice for so many people. And as you so astutely put it, most of these people don't have ANY idea what their alternatives are. They just have biases that are, in many cases, totally unfounded.
No question about it. Unfortunately, when they refuse to relinquish their biases, there's not a lot you can do, other than have them dragged kicking and screaming from their homes. Not exactly a good outcome either.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,541,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokensky View Post
... It can come down to family members having to coerce Mom or Dad into new living arrangements, but frankly, I don't see that happening too often.

No one can plan for everything. In every case I have known, from a distance or in my own family, in the end, finances are what drives end of life decisions, when there are health issues and someone is needing assistance with activities of daily living.
It would be so great not having to coerce parents! I'm glad you're seeing that. I'm seeing the opposite. I don't have a single friend or relative my age who is not in serious disagreement with how their parents are choosing to live. The elders drive cars far longer than their abilities support. They cling to houses that are impossible for them to take care of. Their inabilities force their children to take on responsibilities they neither want nor can afford.

My two best friends and I each have widowed mothers. One mother has Alzheimer's, one has COPD and serious depression, the third is unable to walk without assistance and has serious pain issues. All of them expected to stay in suburban homes, driving everywhere they wanted to go when they were totally unable to do so safely. All of them are on medications they cannot manage alone. None of them has the ability to care for their finances or their medical issues. To date two of us have been able to get our mothers into better situations than her home. But my friend whose mother has COPD has to drive to her mother's house every single day to check on her, fix her meals, give her breathing treatments, etc. Her mother is on oxygen and my friend is convinced she is still sneaking cigarettes. My friend, who is an only child, lives in fear she will go to the house one day and find it burned down. I know many other people who deal with the similar situations. The stubbornness is pathological and it puts not only the elder but also neighbors in jeopardy. Aging in place is great ... up to a point. But at some point it becomes taking advantage of other people and maybe even dying and not having your body found for days.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,388 posts, read 9,131,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnTrips View Post
No question about it. Unfortunately, when they refuse to relinquish their biases, there's not a lot you can do, other than have them dragged kicking and screaming from their homes. Not exactly a good outcome either.
Screw personal rights?

You might change your tune when THEY come to get you.

It is their money, their life and their choice!

Not their kids (afraid of lo$ing their inheritance). So what if mom dies in her own home.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:53 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,463,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Screw personal rights?

You might change your tune when THEY come to get you.

It is their money, their life and their choice!

Not their kids (afraid of lo$ing their inheritance). So what if mom dies in her own home.
Hear! Hear!
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,723,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
........... The stubbornness is pathological and it puts not only the elder but also neighbors in jeopardy. Aging in place is great ... up to a point. But at some point it becomes taking advantage of other people .........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Screw personal rights?

You might change your tune when THEY come to get you.

It is their money, their life and their choice!

Not their kids (afraid of lo$ing their inheritance). So what if mom dies in her own home.
Mr5150, the issue is not whether mom "dies in her own home", but rather what abject misery mom will have to endure before she dies, all due to her pig-headedness, or as Jukesgrrl put it in a more kindly fashion, her pathological stubbornness.

What adult child who cares about his or her mom is going to be able to stand by when mom is no longer capable of fixing her own meals and also stubbornly refuses to accept meals on wheels or similar, all in the misguided name of respecting mom's autonomy? Don't tell me you are fine with the concept of your own mother slowly starving to death while in a state of confusion.

The standard of governmental intrusion into someone's life is that the person be a danger to himself or to others. That is also a good standard for the forceful intervention of adult children, and it has nothing to do with inheritances in most cases.
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