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Old 03-08-2015, 11:06 AM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,205,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I am not talking about the completely demented. Danger to self and others? Note my user name. I know of such things.

My guess is you are rightly burned out dealing with you three over 90 relatives. Just stop enabling. Stop! Live your life. Not driven by guilt!

Mom and aunts have the right to die in their own homes which is what old school professionals want to prevent. Would you want to hauled away by the nanny state cuz some Social Worker (me) has decided it is for your own good? I do have the authority in CA.

If mom wishes to die in her own home that is fine. If mom is so demented she cannot feed herself that is another matter. I think you are not getting it. Mostly I see medical professionals wishing to cover their backsides recommending that mom be placed in a facility, because she might fall and crack her head open and die at home. Works for me (personally)

You want abject misery? I would suggest life in a nursing home as a person who is not totally demented.

Let your mom die in peace at home. It is OK to say no the next time she calls.
Sorry, no, your comments show you know absolutely nothing about dementia. Or even a person with a stroke, or TIAs or anemia FFS.

You MIGHT be a "social worker" but you clearly have never been a caregiver.

Your posting history is mostly about the topic of religion and I see no indication of you having any interest in the subject or contributing to the Caregiving forum.

So feel free to JOIN US there and learn about it.

It is completely possible for dementia people to be driving, "acting normal", cooking and EATING. and then, SETTING THE HOUSE ON FIRE.

You also know NOTHING about these "nursing homes". BTW the term "nursing home" is not a real term. Do you mean Memory Care, ALF or SNF?

I hope you're LUCKY ENOUGH to be able to afford one when the time comes.

It's interesting you THINK that if and when your wife gets dementia but isn't "TOTALLY DEMENTED" that you're just gonna let her fall and "crack her head open and die". Or if she has a stroke, she'll just ~conveniently die off or you'll magically have some ability to ...well I don't know exactly WHAT you think you'll do.

That's NOT how it works, but you'll find out.

PROTIP: Learn about dehydration and UTIs before it's too late.
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Old 03-08-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
Reputation: 29071
Wow! I guess my wife and I are 'lucky' after all. But for a cousin of my wife's who's in her late 70s we have no truly elderly relatives. My last two, an uncle by marriage and a half uncle, died in 2006 and last year, respectively. My wife's mother died in 2009, a year after I retired, and her father in 1994 before we married. Like me, she was an only child so while we made sure her mother's needs were taken care of, that need ended before we left the state.

As for me, my mother and father died in late 1989 and early 1991, respectively, and my grandparents and the remaining blood aunts and uncles decades before.

Interestingly enough, my former mother-in-law and I maintained a close relationship until her death in 2011 at age 94 (my former FIL died early in 1978 and MIL never remarried) and ultimately she liked my wife more than she liked her own daughter, my ex. We both mourned her death.

So how lucky? But for seeing to my wife's mother's affairs during the last six months of her life, we've not had to deal with any of these end-of-life issues for others. She died at home as she wished to with 24-7 home care but 3-6 months before she ran out of money for it. Interestingly enough, we were to find out that she had written my wife, her only child, out of her will and left her with nothing because, "You have your husband to take care of you."

These are not simple issues by any means and I sympathize with those who have to confront them, especially where multiple siblings are involved.
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Old 03-08-2015, 08:01 PM
 
Location: SW US
2,218 posts, read 2,036,207 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
My mother died in the house across from my sister she bought at age 90 (coerced). My BIL was supposed to put in her room a.c. that hot day, but "forgot." The coroner estimated she was gone about 48 hrs before being found. It was not a a very aesthetic ending, actually traumatic for my sister and me. Police carried her out, terrible scene on a hot summer night.
It may have been more traumatic for you than for her.
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,869 posts, read 14,383,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnTrips View Post

The issue is more complicated if you feel that they pose a danger to themselves, but they disagree. The only way you can force them out of their home, if they absolutely refuse to leave, is to have a court declare them incompetent. I've talked with an attorney and a psychiatrist about this. The advice I received is that for a court to agree with you, you have to show that they pose a continuing danger to themselves or others (beyond just a run of the mill accident that anyone could have), or that they cannot take care of their own financial matters, i.e., cant pay their own bills.
We found that, united, the adult kids could insist that our mother move from her condo and into assisted care. We did insist. Of course, things were hastened along by a crisis she had which caused her doctor to tell her she could not live alone anymore.

But, we were making headway before the crisis. It is harder if there is only one child, and the elder is stubborn. If there are several kids, all unified, and if they insist, they can get mom or dad to move.

If the elder should no longer drive, then that might be the final straw, though.

You will never win an argument with a demented person. Because the demented person cannot reason, has little judgement about safety, and is afraid of change. You might win one or two over with a field trip to a nice ALF, maybe. But sometimes the adult kids have to insist strongly.

When your parent is aging, have him or her do a POA for the future. If you can legally handle the affairs of him or her, your problems will be much less. Then when the elder can't handle day to day finances, or the paying of taxes, you can smoothly take over. This is a hard, hard road. There are no easy answers.
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,869 posts, read 14,383,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
I don't think aging in place is all that good an idea. In the first place, valuable funds might be expended to keep a house over their head that is intended to house 6 people not one or two. In the second place maint. problems become more of a challenge for an elderly person, especially a woman, if she doesn't have someone who can and will take responsibility. Esp. a widow would be wiser to take a small apartment, a condo, or a mobile home. Less money tied up, lower taxes and insurance, and less to clean.
I think aging in place makes better sense in an apartment or condo. I agree with your points about a too large house.
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,869 posts, read 14,383,691 times
Reputation: 30751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
In addition to your valid points, is the companionship to be enjoyed in many 55+ communities. Many provide a downsized home, apartment, condo, or mobile with the added bonus of activities and outings. These communities exist for all income levels, not only the wealthy. The residents tend to look after one another and form close friendships. For many seniors they provide a wonderful transition from the family home while they are still relatively capable. Some even have shuttle busses to shopping, medical, etc. Both my parents lived and passed away in such communities and loved it.
These places are way stations on the way to dependence. Many of the people posting on this forum have elders who are demented and fixated on staying in their homes. I do agree that independent living communities are good places for the people who can function on their own, with only some assistance. And I also agree that the social contacts there are very good for them.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:09 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,839 posts, read 18,861,423 times
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A problem. I have a very stubborn cousin, my own age, 70. She seems to have everything wrong with her and much of it was brought on by her own stubbornness. But I'm going to try not to be judgemental. Her health has been going downhill for about 15 years now and maybe 10 years ago she was "diagnosed" with MS. I'm not sure that's what she really has but it probably doesn't matter.

She has lost most of her hearing but she does pretty well with hearing aids, she cannot walk very well due to arthritic hips (which have been replaced but for whatever reason, it hasn't worked.) She has been in extreme pain for years due to something about her back for which there is nothing they can do.

She's on loads of pills and I've often wondered if they are really good for her or if they make her worse. She has always lived alone because she is stubbornly independent and has never wanted anyone else around for very long. Fortunately, she has a man friend down the street. He is in his 80s but doesn't look or act it. He comes over to see her every day and does some chores for her and makes sure she is okay.

She has mental issues too and always has had. Bi-polar and depression. Her house, which she bought on her own about 20 years ago, is just right for her as it is a small ranch so everything is on one level. She orders her groceries online and they are delivered to the house.

Her man-friend and I are her legal guardians. A few months ago she was driving somewhere and forgot how to get home. Nothing like this had ever happened before and now her new, young doctor says she has early dementia.

I'm not so sure. Her mother did have Alzheimer's but it was caused by a bad car accident after which the doctors said she would develop dementia at some later date. But it isn't hereditary, it was caused by an accident. Maybe the doctor is thinking my cousin inherited the tendency for dementia from her mother.

I haven't noticed any memory loss in my cousin. What I notice is severe depression. She has even called me up, sobbing, and I've driven to her house with my dog and she will perk right up, remembers the dog's name, and is normal. Of course, I live over an hour away so I can't visit her very often. When I do, she is normal. When she calls me on the phone, she is sobbing.

So. She called the other day and said her doctor wants to put her into a nursing home. My cousin has always said she wants to die in her home. She loves this little house and it works well for her. She doesn't cook so she's not going to set the house on fire. She just heats up food in the microwave or eats fruit or yogurt.

She is devoted to her two cats and her garden and she said life would not be worth living if she couldn't have pets or her garden to work in. She gets around in her yard by hanging on to things or crawling.

When she called this last time, sobbing about what her doctor said, I called her man-friend. He says the doctor is getting reports from the people who come to help my cousin at home, the nurse, the social worker, etc.

If anyone is still reading, what can be done in this situation? She can well afford assisted living but she won't go because it would mean giving up her home, her cats, her garden--everything she loves. She says she would rather be dead. I guess I don't blame her. If a person's mind is nearly gone and they don't know where they are, assisted living wouldn't be so bad. Most relatives I've had who went into assisted living became depressed because it was like being institutionalized. The others only had a few more months to live anyway, they were so weak and sick.

My cousin should be able to stay in the home that she bought and loves with her pets. That's what I think. I cannot picture her anywhere else. Of course, she's not happy there but she's somewhat happy with her cats and her garden. That's all she has. She has spells of happiness in her home; she would not have that elsewhere.

Should her man-friend and I allow her to stay in her home and die there as she wishes? He is the primary guardian because he lives nearby and he says he will NEVER sign the papers to put her away. I say the same thing. Is this okay? I could never forgive myself if I signed those papers against her will, only if she truly became demented and didn't know where she was. I want what is best for her and I know that she has always said she wants to die in her own home. That is her wish.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:10 PM
 
6,812 posts, read 3,867,159 times
Reputation: 15525
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
These places are way stations on the way to dependence. Many of the people posting on this forum have elders who are demented and fixated on staying in their homes. I do agree that independent living communities are good places for the people who can function on their own, with only some assistance. And I also agree that the social contacts there are very good for them.
Yes, they are way stations, but they can delay the inevitable for two reasons that I can see. First, the socialization helps delay "brain softening". Second, it is easier to find help with housekeeping and meals in them. So many residents need these services, there are aids who spend entire days assisting one after another resident. This really helped both my parents and lightened my load considerably.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:39 PM
 
Location: SW US
2,218 posts, read 2,036,207 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post

My cousin should be able to stay in the home that she bought and loves with her pets. That's what I think. I cannot picture her anywhere else. Of course, she's not happy there but she's somewhat happy with her cats and her garden. That's all she has. She has spells of happiness in her home; she would not have that elsewhere.

Should her man-friend and I allow her to stay in her home and die there as she wishes? He is the primary guardian because he lives nearby and he says he will NEVER sign the papers to put her away. I say the same thing. Is this okay? I could never forgive myself if I signed those papers against her will, only if she truly became demented and didn't know where she was. I want what is best for her and I know that she has always said she wants to die in her own home. That is her wish.
If she wants to stay in her home and die there, and is not a risk for burning it down or wandering and getting lost, then I would say please let her have what she wants. It sounds like she has home care set up. I feel that quality of life is worth more than a longer quantity of life without the things she loves.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:56 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,943,432 times
Reputation: 18050
Basically it depend on circumstance; often a matter of family and/or finances. Never had a family member ever go to a nursing home. Government only intrudes when no one responsible wants to is the truth. Hate to say it in many cases you reap what you sow.
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