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Old 03-23-2015, 04:48 PM
 
39,288 posts, read 20,376,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we know so many families destroyed by bad longer term care planning including my own.


it never fails , one sibbling will always step up to the plate while the others back away .

that sibbling usually develops anger at the others for not helping.

if the sibbling who does help has a spouse , once that spouse starts complaining about the others not helping and giving you grief for helping things go bad very quickly.

parents have to realize that not only are children not always able to help but their own jobs and careers can suffer as well. they can be injured as well as anyone who tried to lift 200lbs of limp flesh without their own support can tell you.
after dealing with my father in a home and grandfather for years and a divorce that grew out of anger from me being the sibbling to help marilyn and i got a long term care policy.

we do not expect our kids to have to try to care for us and we are making very sure we don't ruin their lives because of it.
Mathjak, thanks for the warning. I have two brothers. Before my mother fell and my one brother and I were giving 27/7 care but both of us were exhausted and miserable. We'd hide it from mom but otherwise it just got to us and it started working on our families, first they never saw us and then when they did we were exhausted.

My other brother acted as if he would help his share but when we asked him what days he could take he'd become argumentative and really very nasty. He bailed before we got started. We no longer talk to him, just the way he wants it because he knows we would ask for his help.

I know a girl who is in financial trouble but instead of being able to work a second job to catch up she takes care of her mom and then ended up in bankruptcy. I have a list of how keeping parents home negatively effects not only the people taking care of the parent but their families.

Because I love my mom, we are going to try again when she gets out of rehab but I really don't know if I can go through all that again. If I pay for help it is so expensive and it will hurt us financially. The whole thing is so heartbreaking.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:52 PM
 
39,288 posts, read 20,376,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat1116 View Post
And yet, who took care of us in our childhood?
I suppose you expect your kids to give up their lives when you get to this point right?
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,485 posts, read 43,795,280 times
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taking my mother into our home almost cost me my marriage. it definitely negative impacted our family life with two teenagers to raise. Mother had the money but was too tight to spend it. I ended up inheriting the lion share cause my brother died before she did but if he hadn't he---who never lifted a finger and criticized every move I made- would have benefitted from the wise financial decisions I made managing our mother's affairs for more than 14 years.

So here we sit with lots of money but my health suffered so much from the stress of caring for a woman who should have been in assisted living years before i finally screwed up my nerve and did what needed to be done.

We've talked to our own kids about this and we are doing what we need to do to take care of ourselves or hire workers when we need it.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:07 PM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Mathjak, thanks for the warning. I have two brothers. Before my mother fell and my one brother and I were giving 27/7 care but both of us were exhausted and miserable. We'd hide it from mom but otherwise it just got to us and it started working on our families, first they never saw us and then when they did we were exhausted.

My other brother acted as if he would help his share but when we asked him what days he could take he'd become argumentative and really very nasty. He bailed before we got started. We no longer talk to him, just the way he wants it because he knows we would ask for his help.

I know a girl who is in financial trouble but instead of being able to work a second job to catch up she takes care of her mom and then ended up in bankruptcy. I have a list of how keeping parents home negatively effects not only the people taking care of the parent but their families.

Because I love my mom, we are going to try again when she gets out of rehab but I really don't know if I can go through all that again. If I pay for help it is so expensive and it will hurt us financially. The whole thing is so heartbreaking.
there are usually other issues too. the stay at home spouse goes in to panic mode when care is needed for the spouse who needs it. many times they do not get the care they need because the healthy spouse gets scared and needs that money for their own support.


that is the problem folks run in to who think they are going to self insure long term care events.
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:46 AM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
I suppose you expect your kids to give up their lives when you get to this point right?
on so many levels this rarely ends well for all parties. it ruins the kids careers , jobs , marriages , their relationships with each other and taxes their own resources and the parent needing care gets less than professional care .

depending what has to be done someone usually gets hurt in the end trying to lift or maneuver someone.

while those who could afford ltc plans don't want to part with the dough it could be the cheapest option in the end.

while lots of folks who don't want to part with the dough say they will self insure they really are not.

to be self insured you really need to keep a huge amount of money safe and secure. you can't count on that money if when you need it markets are down 30-50% and it is an extended down turn.


our advisor pointed out that we would be better off keeping that money fully invested and with just a small piece of the average gain pay for the policy.

he was right . it would be silly having so much money sitting in so9me low yielding investment keeping the powder dry when in reeality i can invest that money and pay for the policy itself and still have more left over than trying to self insure properly in conservative investments..


other issues self insuring is usually you have to shift assets and use trusts . that cuts the stay at home spouse off from much of the asset pool and limits income and access.


plus even if you do that the income the stay at home spouse can get is capped by medicaid limits so preserving assets is great but now try living off them , you can't.


exploring all the options for our care was quite educational and most of the negatives of not doing it i lived in my own family so we took a state partnership plan which elimanates most of the issues.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-24-2015 at 03:36 AM..
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:47 AM
 
12,709 posts, read 14,089,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat1116 View Post
And yet, who took care of us in our childhood?
An excellent point. My mother was an absolute bytch - and worse , and, furthermore, never even visited me when in adulthood I had two serious surgeries.

She inherited enough money to care for herself, and I told her to be prepared to do exactly that as I would not be there.

She took care of herself very well right to the end, and I was not there.

Had she been a caring mother, I would have been a caring son.

When my favorite aunt, who tried to cushion my mother's negative influence, became old and had to go to a nursing home, even though we were at first hundreds of miles apart and later thousands I sent her money, books, wrote a steady stream of long letters and called frequently for ten years. And visited occasionally until I moved to Europe.

That was the person who took care of me, and I played a big part in taking care of her.
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:49 AM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
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glad it worked out for you but for most it will not end well for all the reasons i mentioned above. there is a huge price to pay genarally ,either financially or relationship wise with family members and spouses.

of course not everyone can afford to insure these things but there are cheaper alternatives.

the main thing is if you will be the caregiver you have to be aware of all the emotions and resentment you may eventually feel towards other family members and expect to have to deal with these issues in your head.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:09 AM
 
Location: EPWV
11,056 posts, read 6,204,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemdiver View Post
And yet, who didn't plan for their retirement? or the possibility that they would need assistance at an advanced age?

Nobody asked to be born into this world.

The demands that ops in-laws are placing on them is ridiculous and should not be tolerated.
Maybe the parents spent it on "trying to give what they thought was the best they could give" to their offspring thus forsaking their plans. Offspring leaving out those details in OP for convenience sake? We don't really know, do we? Maybe they didn't know - that's possible too.

Some parents wishing they had the cute, sweet, generosity of someone else's kids since theirs thinks their parents owe them the world? The parents may have tried real hard to get the kid to appreciate the value of things but instead they (the kids) want to be more like the kids from the real rich parents of their best school buddy? There is that possibility.

We won't really know why/what prevented the parents from saving for their old age anymore than I guess anyone's life growing up with any one particular parent or both. There will always be two sides to the story - the one we get to hear and the one we don't.
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Old 03-24-2015, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
2,542 posts, read 1,608,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
It may be "glib" to you but it's a reality for many. My father, a retired Marine Corps officer, WW II and Korean war veteran, was a harsh individual and father to have to put up with during my childhood and beyond. Regardless, after my mother died from pancreatic cancer and he was beginning to fail I tried my hardest to

My father, not having had a present father in his life, didn't know any better and he did have his good and admirable points. But above all, he was my father. I was his son. That's what mattered.
Well I think it is great that you chose to take on that burden. Again, it was your choice to do so. Your unique experience does not necessarily translate to everyone. You may choose to accept a moral obligation to care for your parents, and I think that is noble. Did you see this post, from above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
FYI to all of you with parents who served in WW2. WW2 vets and their widows may be entitled to a benefit called Veteran's Aid and Attendance if they are in need of an ALF or Nursing home care.
That said, I stand by what I wrote. I have direct, personally valued knowledge of an experience such as yours which figures into my math already. There are other posts here, such as the excellent one by Jukesgrrl, that you might wish to reflect upon.

The idea that upon birth, we inherit the responsibility to care for our parents until death is a laughable erosion of our freedoms under American ideals. It is, in essence, being born into indentured servitude, or worse.

Last edited by ormari; 03-24-2015 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: SW US
2,220 posts, read 2,037,561 times
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Even if parents have saved enough money, or maybe bought LTC insurance, there are other needs besides money. Someone has to handle paying bills when they get too old. Someone has to oversee medical care. Someone has to make sure the parent is not being badly treated at the ALF or SNF. Someone has to ensure the parent is not scammed into giving money or possessions to greedy people. Etc. Etc. This can go on for many, many years, and be very wearing.
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