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Old 04-04-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
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Hmm! I think the bottom line here is that in subsidized senior housing there should be reasonable comfort and safety provisions to address the physical abilities and needs of the residents. However, to require that they conform across the board to those of the more financially "comfortable" is unrealistic.
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,100 posts, read 22,968,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Hmm! I think the bottom line here is that in subsidized senior housing there should be reasonable comfort and safety provisions to address the physical abilities and needs of the residents. However, to require that they conform across the board to those of the more financially "comfortable" is unrealistic.
Let's say the owner of the subsidized complex is getting market rate of $800/month for the apartments. Some seniors may only be paying $200/month out of their pocket, but other govt sources are making up the $600. The owner gets market rate for those apartments with total income of $800/unit.

Shouldn't those seniors be entitled to the comfort that is normal for an apartment on the unsubsidized market that costs $800/month? After all, the owner is collecting that much money for the unit.

And that's what the government is expecting and paying for.

That's my point.

And if this is what these seniors are saying, which is what it sounds like to me, then they have every right to be raising hell. They're really fighting for the tax payers, making sure this owner provides what he's getting paid to provide.

And getting on the backs of the lazy govt employees, who aren't making sure the tax payers' money is getting what it's supposed to get.

IMHO.

Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 04-04-2015 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:39 PM
 
10,817 posts, read 8,065,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Let's say the owner of the subsidized complex is getting market rate of $800/month for the apartments. Some seniors may only be paying $200/month out of their pocket, but other govt sources are making up the $600. The owner gets market rate for those apartments with total income of $800/unit.

Shouldn't those seniors be entitled to the comfort that is normal for an apartment on the unsubsidized market that costs $800/month? After all, the owner is collecting that much money for the unit.

And that's what the government is expecting and paying for.

That's my point.

And if this is what these seniors are saying, which is what it sounds like to me, then they have every right to be raising hell. They're really fighting for the tax payers, making sure this owner provides what he's getting paid to provide.

IMHO.
Here in Texas, the market rate is somewhere in the range of 1400-1800 a month, the subsidized monthly is commonly 400-800 a month, i.e 30% of the renter's income.. What you call 'comfort' or what the government should expect and pay for isn't at all clear. Personally, I think 30% of income is good, and I don't understand what you're fighting for. Please elaborate.
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:50 PM
 
10,817 posts, read 8,065,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Perhaps the anger of these tenants is that this owner, who is getting paid market rent subsidies from the government, is not providing the services the government expects for it's money.
Upon what are you basing this assumption? Market rents are the exception, in most cases only 10-15% of rentals in any one unit are available at market rates.
Persons who are eligible for 55+ rent subsidies have to meet stringent, non-market, qualifications.

Please people, do your homework.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,489 posts, read 10,514,156 times
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[quote=Escort Rider;39089017]OP, the inconsistency and massive hypocrisy of that old lady you described makes me sick to my stomach.......QUOTE]

....it makes me think it was fabricated. And the OP just couldn't wait to "politicize" something.

Give me a break.
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Location: Location
6,350 posts, read 7,829,685 times
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The OP states that there is "a group of people" in Dad's subsidized building lobbying for extra amenities. Please note that it does not mean "all the residents" have voiced their displeasure at being forced to live in such sub-standard conditions.

It seems a shame that some people have to post about the elderly as if ALL the elderly are a bunch of self-absorbed, self-serving entitled malcontents. We are not. I'm pretty damn elderly myself and I have paid my own way my whole life. That includes paying into the Social Security/Medicare fund by my taxes when I worked. That makes me "entitled" to receive the benefits I paid for. I'm not asking for more than that.

I don't live in senior housing, although I am on the cusp of qualifying for same. I live in the house I worked to buy and pay for. ( I don't have a/c because I don't need it. MOF, most elderly people put on extra garments because a/c makes them uncomfortable.)

Just because ONE individual wants to rally SOME of her fellow-residents to ask for "extras" doesn't make ALL seniors guilty of asking for you young whippersnappers to pay for our luxuries. (Actually, just waking up in the morning able to get out of bed is a luxury for many seniors; battling for "extras" would be just too exhausting.)

I respectfully request that Don Quixote find another wind-mill to tilt - the "entitled seniors" argument has been done to death.
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,978,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonpa View Post

Going to shelters, most shelters are not prepared to supply O2 or Power to concentrator. They will be on the next Trip to the Hospital (and all of the Societal costs that go with it).
The thought of an entire building (of however many floors) of elderly people having to go to a shelter in a power outage in winter in most parts of the country is a costly and frightful thought. There was a fire in one of the senior buildings in my state some years back and evacuating all those people, many in walkers and some on oxygen, was a logistical nightmare. The preventative measures of a backup system are not a luxury.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,252,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
The thought of an entire building (of however many floors) of elderly people having to go to a shelter in a power outage in winter in most parts of the country is a costly and frightful thought. There was a fire in one of the senior buildings in my state some years back and evacuating all those people, many in walkers and some on oxygen, was a logistical nightmare. The preventative measures of a backup system are not a luxury.


The scenario you laid out makes me wonder about sprinkler systems in those buildings. It is infeasible to retrofit them, it should have been a requirement when the buildings were built; however, we have no idea how old they are and if those codes were in effect back when.

I paid all of my taxes since I was 16 and contributed to 401Ks my entire working career. I have never had a beef with the elderly as like myself, all have had a place of our own to live. If I need assistance, I have a dear sister who will go out of her way to help. I take the subway to her house and she drives me to out of the way doctor appointments I may have. Fortunately, most of doctors can be accessed by me driving or by subway.

That is advanced planning. My heat is set to 70 in the winter and AC to 78 in the summer and I pay for it.

I have replaced the tiles and rubber stair treads in 4 story garden-style apts in summer heat. Those things are hell when the sun shines direct in the windows and used to drive me out for periods of time. I can't image long hallways which must be like ovens.

How much does a smart missile cost when the Navy lunches one at Iran, Iraq, Libya or Syria in the name of national defense? I bet overpaid congressional members don't lose sleep over those figures when news of elderly constituents living in subsidized housing voice their woes. Obama and/or Biden should put their mothers into one of those apts and we'll see what happens.

BTW: Japanese families take care of their own. Most Americans can't fathom the concept; it would put them out.
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Old 04-05-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
And getting on the backs of the lazy govt employees, who aren't making sure the tax payers' money is getting what it's supposed to get.

IMHO.
And you know a lot of those "lazy govt employees" I suppose, like the ones who processed your application that permits you to live in subsidized housing. Guess you knew a lot of them, huh?

Funny, between the military, law enforcement and political and legislative analysis I spent about 33 of my 45 working years in government service and in all that time I can only count the number of lazy employees I ran across on the fingers of both hands. Not too bad for the hundreds I knew and those I supervised.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,331,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Perhaps the anger of these tenants is that this owner, who is getting paid market rent subsidies from the government, is not providing the services the government expects for it's money.

That would be your money, right?

I've never lived anywhere in hot weather where there was no air conditioning in the hallways and the offices. I couldn't imagine living in such a place. These seniors aren't wanting better conditions than the average bear, it sounds to me like they just want normal conditions.

In CA, there must be a manager who lives on site if a building has 16 or more units.

I also can't imagine these seniors coming up with an anger problem over power outtages, if it hasn't been a problem.

Wouldn't you complain if you lived somewhere where there were power outtages? And especially, if you needed power to stay alive? You really think it makes more sense to send them off to the emergency room every time there's an outtage? Wouldn't that cost the city/county money? Raise your health care costs? Waste more of "your" money?

It's quite possible these tenants want the owner to give the government it's money's worth. Let the owner pay for the a/c and fix the power issues.

BTW, the subsidized senior housing apts I've lived in in CA (two so far) all coordinate meetings for us with all different types of govt and health care services. In fact, someone from the food bank comes here every Saturday and drops off food for us, so the seniors who can't get out will have some of the free food, too.

So, these things that are being requested by these seniors, are things that are completely normal and expected to be provided by the owners of these buildings - in other parts of the country. It's expected of the owners of these buildings to provide these things, in order to receive govt subsidies of market rent.

I think you should go to the meetings with these seniors, OP, and demand that this owner provide market rate level apartments with the money they are receiving to subsidize the rents of these seniors - from the government. Go demand to get your money's worth.

Because the one who appears to be greedy and entitled in this picture, from where I sit (knowing how subsidized housing owners and managers get paid), is the owner taking govt funds and not providing decent housing with the money.
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
Here in Texas, the market rate is somewhere in the range of 1400-1800 a month, the subsidized monthly is commonly 400-800 a month, i.e 30% of the renter's income.. What you call 'comfort' or what the government should expect and pay for isn't at all clear. Personally, I think 30% of income is good, and I don't understand what you're fighting for. Please elaborate.
You are not understanding what NMSFM is saying. The individual/company/nonprofit that owns these apartments is guaranteed market rate by the feds. They are supposed to provide apartments that are good enough to be market rate, not apartments that are "good enough" for the rents the tenants in the building pay.

In NMSFM's area, maybe the market rate is $800. In your area of Texas, maybe it's $1500 a month. In NYC, it might be $2500 a month. In the same building, there might be tenants making as much as $2000 and others only $900 a month, which is immaterial to the landlord who is getting $800/$1500/$2500 a month per unit whether the tenant is paying $600 or $270 out of his/her own pocket.

The question is, would market rate apartments have the kinds of "amenities" that the tenants of the subsidized apartments are "demanding"? If the answer is "yes", then their demands are not out of line because that's what the taxpayers are paying the landlords to provide.
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