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Old 12-14-2015, 01:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
You are not FRA but are lucky your age falls into the sweet spot for retaining a file/suspend option.
Do you mind giving what your benefit amount would be if filed now and at FRA (67?).

Of course your situation/decision offers options because you have resources that permit delaying receiving SS or even your wife's option to suspend.

Confused though--about that option--guess it is because of your ages that you retain those options past the April 2016 date the new regulations become effective.
I didnt think past April that you could receive spousal on a benefit that was suspended which hers would be I believe.
>>>edit portion<<<
Or maybe you file spousal when she resumes in 2020...
we are grand fathered in so we still have the file and suspend and restricted application option available to us .

yes i can file restricted application once when resumes her benefit .

at 62 i was 1911.00

66 2534

70 3345
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Old 12-14-2015, 05:39 PM
 
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Default Confusing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
survivor benefits are reduced though if you take them before your own fra . you get what your husband got at fra . it is reduced though for every year you take them before your own fra . there is a floor though where it won't get a cut any further . if you took them at 62 as an example you would not get cut lower then his full benefit at fra x .81%

We have talked to SS and gotten the ruling in writing and also talked to a ss expert/planner. As we have been told, even though I took early at 62 - with reduced benefits and then switched to spousal when my husband turned 66 and filed and suspended - I will get whatever he is entitled to at the time he might die -100% if I have turned 66 - my FRA. My widow's benefit is 100% of his amount even if I took early at 62. I need to be 66 though and that will happen in a couple of months.He is delaying taking another year until 69. 8 % each year is alot!
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mawoods View Post
. My widow's benefit is 100% of his amount even if I took early at 62. I need to be 66 though and that will happen in a couple of months.He is delaying taking another year until 69. 8 % each year is alot!
your statement is confusing . taking your ss benefit early has nothing to do with your survivor benefit . but taking your survivor benefit early has ramifications and a reduction .

If you take survivor benefits pre your own fra they are reduced from what you would have had if you waited.


If monthly benefits start before full retirement age, the amount is smaller to take into account the longer period a person receives them.

Widows or widowers benefits based on age can start any time between age 60 and full retirement age as a survivor. If the benefits start at an earlier age, they are reduced a fraction of a percent for each month before full retirement age.

These are examples of the benefits that survivors may receive:

Widow or widower, full retirement age or older -- 100 percent of the deceased worker's benefit amount;
Widow or widower, age 60 -- full retirement age -- 71 to 99 percent of the deceased worker's basic amount;



here is the chart showing the reduction between 60 and fra



https://www.ssa.gov/planners/survivo...rchartred.html

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-14-2015 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 12-15-2015, 02:49 AM
 
Location: R.I.
984 posts, read 608,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
yep she does . none of th numbers are cola adjusted so the actual mounts will be higher
That is great!!! Both my MILs struggled financially when their spouses SS check went away so good you are planning to protect your wife this way.
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Old 12-15-2015, 03:09 AM
 
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the only thing the fidelity software can't do is account for the fact you are spending down invested assets delaying . that can be a very big difference in results and break even age .

but they are just to variable and in consistent to really figure . these days projections are for below average returns for a while so taking it early and investing may be rolling the dice .

you may want to have a separate small portfolio set a side with money conservatively invested to act as a bridge if you delay .
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Old 12-15-2015, 06:55 AM
 
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Did the Fidelity software look at your overall tax situations and factor in the tax effect of taking early, at FRA, or at 70??

Another complication about waiting until 70 for my husband--who would get the larger amount--is that he is forced to take RMDs at 70.5--right after he has started SS benefits...He will likely be able to delay the RMDs #1 because his birth month is 12--but even doing that means he would take two RMDs in one calendar year--that is punative decision if you have a significant withdrawal amounts unless you have some special circumstance to offset the tax implication...

So while we have the capability of using cash from savings to supplement my teacher's pension and spousal benefit which allows us to fall in the minimum tax level for several years, once he hits 70 and starts SS and RMDs our taxable income will go up...
Without doing lot of math, I was thinking we could harvest more benefit (percentage wise) because the SS money he received would be taxed at lower level than the increased benefit at 70---
I know that seems it is almost not worth pursuing because it is such a complicated comparison...

Our financial advisor wanted him to wait until 70 in hopes that there was window of opportunity to make Roth captures from my husband's S-corp's DBA which is going to be rolled over to IRA status this year when the DBA is terminated.
So the advisor wants us to have as low a taxable profile as we can...of course everyone wants to save money vs paying taxes...
But if we did that to any significant degree -- maybe up to second threshold--we also add income which counts against us with Medicare premium calculations--and that goes two years into the future--
So Roth conversions in 2016 effect your premium calculations into 2018; a 2017 conversion would push us into 2019, etc...
Those premiums for higher income Medicare recepients have become pretty punative with this new level in 2016.
AND I think that is something that many financial advisors don't consider if their clients don't fall into the "hold-harmless" category----and MOST Medicare participants do fall into that hold-harmless class...
But again--many financial advisors are working with people who have more income/resources than people who handle their own investments...

Again--our situation is different from others....and factors that are +/- in our case might not be relevant for 99% of people out there...
BUT people who will have significant amounts of RMDs in coming years, might have been able to juggle their accounts/resources/income in such a way they didn't fall into the higher-income classifications BEFORE RMDs might find they do afterwards....and that can be painful bullet to bite in my experience...
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:07 AM
 
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the older fidelity planner did tax ball parks automatically but there are so many variables they decided not to include it in the new planner as automatic .

most of the time it is better to spend down the ira's while delaying since the social security is not tax on 100% while rmd's are.

the issue with the taxes is we all have different needs .

for 2016 -2017 i will use mostly cash from our taxable account since i can get a medical insurance subsidy . after that we want to spend down the ira accounts . perhaps we want to mix things up so we can do roth conversions .

the tax situation is just to personalized to be in something in the software that is automatic , however you can still enter a manual tax rate . .

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-15-2015 at 07:24 AM..
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
your statement is confusing . taking your ss benefit early has nothing to do with your survivor benefit . but taking your survivor benefit early has ramifications and a reduction .

If you take survivor benefits pre your own fra they are reduced from what you would have had if you waited.


If monthly benefits start before full retirement age, the amount is smaller to take into account the longer period a person receives them.

Widows or widowers benefits based on age can start any time between age 60 and full retirement age as a survivor. If the benefits start at an earlier age, they are reduced a fraction of a percent for each month before full retirement age.

These are examples of the benefits that survivors may receive:

Widow or widower, full retirement age or older -- 100 percent of the deceased worker's benefit amount;
Widow or widower, age 60 -- full retirement age -- 71 to 99 percent of the deceased worker's basic amount;



here is the chart showing the reduction between 60 and fra



https://www.ssa.gov/planners/survivo...rchartred.html
Just to clarify does it matter when either spouse begins receiving their own benefits in relation to the survivor's benefits I believe you addressed this before but just wanted to clarify.

In other words lets say I file early at 64 and start receiving benefits. I die 2 years later and my wife, who is is now at her FRA, files to claim her survivor benefits. Will they be reduced because I filled early? What if she filed early at 64 under her own earnings, then I die when she is past her FRA? Will she still receive 100% of my FRA benefit? I understand they will be added to her benefits but will it add up to 100% of the full survival benefit figure?
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:48 AM
 
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survivor benefits are based on the record of the person who died so if you filed for ss early there is a reduction in the survivor benefit for the person claiming it , there is also a 2nd reduction if the person taking that survivor benefit files before their fra.

so to avoid to much of a nasty cut there is a 2nd factor and that is there is a safety net in place so if the husband took early ss at 62 and died and the widow took it at 60 based on that the widow would get a 47% reduction in what she would have gotten had her husband not filed early and she waited until fra to claim survivor benefits .

that is a nasty cut , so in place is a minimum floor . at 60 a widow would get 71% of what her husbands full benefit would be if it is more then that double cut .

SO YES , IF THE PERSON WHO'S RECORD WILL BE USED TAKES SS EARLY THERE IS A PENALTY .

THERE IS NO PENALTY IF THE PERSON TAKING SURVIVOR BENEFITS TAKES THEIR SS EARLY BUT THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL PENALTY IF THEY TAKE SURVIVOR BENEFITS EARLY

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-15-2015 at 08:04 AM..
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Old 12-15-2015, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,484 posts, read 5,947,197 times
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Thanks, that is what another person had referenced when he said if the big earner files early there will be a penalty down the road. So will my wife's survival benefits equal my reduced benefit should I file early?
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