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Old 06-13-2015, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Cape Elizabeth
424 posts, read 386,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i do not believe those credits in the year you file are ever recovered for that pasat year. only piad out in new checks going forward..

you get recalculated in january but only get the rate reflecting going forward. no back pay is given for the months you lost credit on.

so if i was 66 in june 2015 and filed for june 2015 i would get whatever my rate was in january 2015 for june to dec.

my new rate would be calculated in january 2016 but that new rate that includes my january to june credits from the previous year would get paid out going forward. but you get nothing for jan to june 2015 paid back . you lose it.
You don't lose it- because everyone is computed the same way. No one gets it. Whether you take your checks or not, it is always computed the same way.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:02 AM
 
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according to what i read if you file in january you get 100% of all the delayed credits paid to you that you earned the previous year since the entire year is recalculated in january as your new rate.

if you had 6 months of delayed credits the previous year and filed in june and didn't wait until the next january you would get the old rate without the 6 months delayed credits until the end of the year. then recalculated to the higher rate in january but you get nothing retro for the six months in the previous year that you got checks that did not include the delayed credits from january up to june.

those are never recovered.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Cape Elizabeth
424 posts, read 386,960 times
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But, Mathjak, let's say you are born in October and you hit 70 October of 2024. Are you suggesting that people don't file for their benefits effective October, 2024, but wait until January, 2025? If so, why? Because people who waited until 70 only get the balance of their last 12 DRC's effective January 2025?

What about people who apply at FRA and let's say they are born in January- let's say they hit FRA January, 2016. They want to file but also want to work. Their work will not be subject to the SSA work test, because they can work and make as much as they like, once they are FRA.

So, you work and earn $115000.00 in 2016, but also file for your checks effective January, 2016. That $115000.00 will not be in your 2016 checks, it will be in your 2017 checks. Same for DRC's. You get credit for all the previous months except for the current year. The additional DRC's are given January, of the following year.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:38 AM
 
71,471 posts, read 71,652,652 times
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i will be 63 in october . but i think if i file in october i get a rate based on january 2015 when it was last calculated, for my checks for oct ,nov, dec..

in january i get the delayed credits i earned from january to october. added to new checks.

but what i do not think is that i get compensated for is the fact i got the old rate on my checks from october to december.

that money is never recouped , it is part of the casualty of the way they pay only going forward.

but if i file in january 2016 i think my rate includes all 12 months of delayed credits in my rate.

in both cases you get the new rate including all delayed credits going forward but if i filed for october i would never get the money i accrued up to october in my oct ,nov, dec. checks.

nor would i get anything extra in january for those months.

so my question is does this apply only after fra or pre fra , now you got me thinking. no question it apply's after fra.

Last edited by mathjak107; 06-13-2015 at 07:59 AM..
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Old 06-13-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,164 posts, read 1,264,598 times
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I though the point of her original post was that partial paid work in a year that you collect SS, allows you to file for SS in n January if that year, and not have it reduced, pre FRA. POST FRA itakes no difference at all when you file, and hethet you are working or not. You get the DRCs regardless, per month. COLA is once a year, regardless.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Cape Elizabeth
424 posts, read 386,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i will be 63 in october . but i think if i file in october i get a rate based on january 2015 when it was last calculated, for my checks for oct ,nov, dec..

in january i get the delayed credits i earned from january to october. added to new checks.

but what i do not think is that i get compensated for is the fact i got the old rate on my checks from october to december.

that money is never recouped , it is part of the casualty of the way they pay only going forward.

but if i file in january 2016 i think my rate includes all 12 months of delayed credits in my rate.

in both cases you get the new rate including all delayed credits going forward but if i filed for october i would never get the money i accrued up to october in my oct ,nov, dec. checks.

nor would i get anything extra in january for those months.

so my question is does this apply only after fra or pre fra , now you got me thinking. no question it apply's after fra.
Ok, Mathjak- here is what happens if you reach 63 in October and let's assume your FRA is 66 and you do file in October of 2015 and you retired the end of October so you were thinking of getting checks for November and December.

First, there are your reduction months- You would have them computed exactly with the beginning month of checks. So, November, 2015 is 35 months away from age 66, so immediately upon filing, your benefit will reflect 35 reduction months.

If you decided to not collect for November and December but instead file with January, 2016, you would have 33 reduction months.

The difference in percents is 81.67% of your FRA amt with the January date and 80.56% of your FRA amount with the November, 2015 date.

Now, your earnings: your earnings for 2015 will not be in the checks for 2015- those checks for Nov-Dec.
No one receives credit for earnings in the year they are in. All recomputations to include a high year of earnings and take out a lower year of earnings happens when the calendar year is over and is effective with January of the following year. You are correct about that aspect of SSA computations.

There are no other credits due you: whether you file effective Nov 2015 or Jan 2016, there are no delayed retirement credits. Those begin to accrue only when a person delays retirement past their FRA date.

The Cola's- if congress grants a cola for the year 2015, it will be effective with the December 2015 check and paid in January, 2016. The COLA granted this past year (December 2014- pd Jan 2015) is already factored into your check. Everyone begins to get the cola's factored in once they turn 62, whether they have collected or not.

The only change to the number of reduction months you had (either 33 or 35) happens if you decide to return to work in 2016, 2017, 2018- all before your FRA month and you were placed in work suspense for a number of months.

Let's say you get offered a great job in 2017 for $85000.00 a year. You take it effective January, 2017 and call SSA and tell them you are working again and earning $85000.00. You wind up not getting the 12 checks in 2017. But you had already collected 2 checks in 2015, 12 checks in 2016, 0 checks in 2017 and 9 checks in 2018 (because come October you can work and collect no matter what you earn). Once 2018 is over, SSA says "how many checks did Mathjak get before he was 66?". He got 23. But, his reduction factor was originally 35. They adjust your reduction factor to 23 reduction months and your permanent reduction factor is now 87.22% of your FRA amount, up from the 80.56%.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Cape Elizabeth
424 posts, read 386,960 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryinva View Post
I though the point of her original post was that partial paid work in a year that you collect SS, allows you to file for SS in n January if that year, and not have it reduced, pre FRA. POST FRA itakes no difference at all when you file, and hethet you are working or not. You get the DRCs regardless, per month. COLA is once a year, regardless.
Perryinva, no, not really that. Everyone is reduced if they begin to collect pre FRA. But, the reduction month number you start with is not always the reduction month number you end up with. That was one point. If a person starts with 36 reduction months but returns to work and winds up not getting, say 10 checks in the next 3 years, at FRA, they redo the reduction factor at FRA and only Permanently reduce the person's benefits from then on by 26 months. By until FRA, the person stays with the 36 month reduction factor (temporary reduction factor).

But, another point is that many people, if they file in January of a year, by having 12 months to work with, and 12 months to potentially "eat up" the amount they are over SSA's work tests, those people could receive some benefits, not all benefits, for a number of months in a year. And they could do this year after year until they are FRA.

You see, most people think this about SSA and the work rules: They look at the $15,720 and say to themselves- "that is all I am allowed to work and earn once I am on SS. After that, "I am penalized $1.00 for every $2.00 I earn". Yes, that is true.

But, there are many, many, many millions of workers who do not earn very much in a year- but, their SS is fairly good because they have been working their entire life, and SSA rewards that. Those people, like either Sherry in my first original post, or Joe, in post #28, if they file in January of a year they would like to retire (but not in your age 62 year) they will be potentially due a number of SS checks. And, especially, like many on this forum, who have a spouse who is also potentially eligible for checks, whenever the wage earner gets a check. It becomes fairly lucrative, or at the least, is worth exploring.

And although the reduction factor, when you start in January is greater (more), because in January you are younger than say, September-- the reduction factor gets adjusted once they reach FRA and only permanently reduces them by the actual # of full checks they received before FRA. Partial checks they might have received due to their work do not count against them.

People come upon this situation very often by accident. They were in the SS office and we showed them how they could get checks and still work. I am just trying to enlighten people to this option, so more people hopefully could be helped.

I just heard on the news last night that Walmart is raising the wages of their "managers" to $13.50 an hour. In the example I used with Joe, he was earning $18.00 an hour and was due checks. You see, many people out there do not earn a lot of money and they could use the extra benefit payments.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:28 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,164 posts, read 1,264,598 times
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SS was meant to, and does always benefit the lower wage earners , percentage wise, the most . The less you need it, because of the more you earned and savved, the easier it is to decide what to do in terms of when to file.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:32 AM
 
71,471 posts, read 71,652,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemycat View Post
Ok, Mathjak- here is what happens if you reach 63 in October and let's assume your FRA is 66 and you do file in October of 2015 and you retired the end of October so you were thinking of getting checks for November and December.

First, there are your reduction months- You would have them computed exactly with the beginning month of checks. So, November, 2015 is 35 months away from age 66, so immediately upon filing, your benefit will reflect 35 reduction months.

If you decided to not collect for November and December but instead file with January, 2016, you would have 33 reduction months.

The difference in percents is 81.67% of your FRA amt with the January date and 80.56% of your FRA amount with the November, 2015 date.

Now, your earnings: your earnings for 2015 will not be in the checks for 2015- those checks for Nov-Dec.
No one receives credit for earnings in the year they are in. All recomputations to include a high year of earnings and take out a lower year of earnings happens when the calendar year is over and is effective with January of the following year. You are correct about that aspect of SSA computations.

There are no other credits due you: whether you file effective Nov 2015 or Jan 2016, there are no delayed retirement credits. Those begin to accrue only when a person delays retirement past their FRA date.

The Cola's- if congress grants a cola for the year 2015, it will be effective with the December 2015 check and paid in January, 2016. The COLA granted this past year (December 2014- pd Jan 2015) is already factored into your check. Everyone begins to get the cola's factored in once they turn 62, whether they have collected or not.

The only change to the number of reduction months you had (either 33 or 35) happens if you decide to return to work in 2016, 2017, 2018- all before your FRA month and you were placed in work suspense for a number of months.

Let's say you get offered a great job in 2017 for $85000.00 a year. You take it effective January, 2017 and call SSA and tell them you are working again and earning $85000.00. You wind up not getting the 12 checks in 2017. But you had already collected 2 checks in 2015, 12 checks in 2016, 0 checks in 2017 and 9 checks in 2018 (because come October you can work and collect no matter what you earn). Once 2018 is over, SSA says "how many checks did Mathjak get before he was 66?". He got 23. But, his reduction factor was originally 35. They adjust your reduction factor to 23 reduction months and your permanent reduction factor is now 87.22% of your FRA amount, up from the 80.56%.
got it , thanks.

one clarification . you say if i started checks in nov ,dec that none of my previous earnings that year count ? so i would not lose anything because i worked and made high 5 figures up to that point since i worked part time the first 10 months ? by right i shouldn't since i didn't apply yet for ss so it would only make sense that it does not count .
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Old 06-14-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Cape Elizabeth
424 posts, read 386,960 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
got it , thanks.

one clarification . you say if i started checks in nov ,dec that none of my previous earnings that year count ? so i would not lose anything because i worked and made high 5 figures up to that point since i worked part time the first 10 months ? by right i shouldn't since i didn't apply yet for ss so it would only make sense that it does not count .
The high five figures you earned in 2015 would be factored in effective January, 2016 and be reflected in your new PIA- primary insurance amount, (which is the same as your FRA amount). Then, that new PIA amount is reduced by the number of months you are younger than FRA at the time you had begun to collect. Your COLA's are also added to that new PIA amount, and again that is what is reduced for your age.

You would not have those earnings reflected in any checks you might or might not receive in 2015. No one does. The year must be over for earnings within the year to be counted in a person's benefit. And, then, only if the year is higher than a year being previously used, and only the difference between the lower year and the new higher year is what is used to grant the increase.

Now, SSA does that increase automatically and then pays people back to January of the year after the year in question. (January 2016 for 2015 earnings). But some people don't like to wait. So, they submit their W2 or their Schedule C and SE and ask for the recomputation to be done manually.

I think that is what you were asking. But if your sentences: "if i started checks in nov ,dec that none of my previous earnings that year count ? So i would not lose anything because i worked and made high 5 figures up to that point since i worked part time the first 10 months? --- If those sentences are referring to "losing anything due to the SSA work and earnings test--No, you do not lose anything due to the high five figures you earned pre-retirement.

Because SSA knows people want to retire in many different months. And, if they had penalized them for working and earning over the $15720.00 prior to retirement, the people would never be able to collect benefits upon retirement.

So, for one year, and one year only, any MONTH you do not earn $1310.00, or do not engage in significant services in self employment and your net earnings from self employment are under $1310.00, you are due a check. In your case, if you were retired, you would be due Nov and Dec checks, regardless of how much you worked and how much you earned prior to November.

Last edited by ilovemycat; 06-14-2015 at 08:12 AM.. Reason: clarification
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