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Old 04-18-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,510,898 times
Reputation: 15950

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSRSJim View Post
People should treat the less fortunate appropriately. One person to another, local community support, etc.
The government shouldn't steal (tax) one group to give to another group (less fortunate or just politically popular voters).
Ain't gonna happen ....because a system like that would require oversight by local people who knew how to identify and "weed out" those who are motivated by the desire to escape anything "too much like WORK".

The principal beneficiaries of any bureaucratized program are the bureaucrats who run it, and they verdammt sure don't want any honest alternatives.
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Old 04-18-2015, 01:12 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,879,340 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
So, let's see .... because I have got myself a good education, worked hard all my life, paid my pension contributions, paid into my 401k and RBAP, paid off my mortgage and generally got myself into a good place for retirement, I should not get the SS that I also contributed tens of thousands of dollars to?

Yep, sounds fair to me
Do you feel the same about the public prisons and asylums you have funded? Yes, that's an extreme example, but I wish we looked at our social programs with more of an eye on helping out the less fortunate and hoping not to become one. Not everyone does; I get that. But if we only provide it for those that need it, the price should go down. I am not sure I am for that, but I am close enough to retirement that I would be nervous about having it messed with now. If they do mess with it, it would likely be for future recipients more than 10 years out.
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Old 04-18-2015, 01:19 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,879,340 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Interesting you sound like a lot of us Triangle transplants, reformed Liberals or Conservatives who are striving for a realistic and workable middle ground. Now if we could only find local politicians who are neither one way or the other.
Biggest problem I find is people who don't research and blindly believe the conservative line. That isn't just here, but there are a surprising number of well educated people here parroting things that make no sense to me.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,167 posts, read 1,266,787 times
Reputation: 4460
This wasn't the article, but it basically spells out the same/similar thing. Also points out that while SS is an insurance, its not insurance for you, but instead insurance premiums you pay, to support the previous generation. The next generation then will pay the premiums to protect you. The first receivers of SS didn't pay anything of course, becasue the generation they would have paid for was already dead. Interesting take on it.

Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get | PolitiFact
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:17 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,943,432 times
Reputation: 18050
Its going no where anyway and its been proposed before and went in same file 13. Its really disability fund they need to talk about because it going under much sooner.
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:24 AM
 
6,353 posts, read 5,161,362 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
So, let's see .... because I have got myself a good education, worked hard all my life, paid my pension contributions, paid into my 401k and RBAP, paid off my mortgage and generally got myself into a good place for retirement, I should not get the SS that I also contributed tens of thousands of dollars to?

Yep, sounds fair to me
Tens of thousands? The maximum SS tax is $13,398 PER YEAR, so hundreds of thousands is more likely if you're anywhere near the maximum taxable income. (I am counting the employer plus employee share, which is correct.)
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:18 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvedTones View Post
Biggest problem I find is people who don't research and blindly believe the conservative line. That isn't just here, but there are a surprising number of well educated people here parroting things that make no sense to me.
Bada Bing!
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:21 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Tens of thousands? The maximum SS tax is $13,398 PER YEAR, so hundreds of thousands is more likely if you're anywhere near the maximum taxable income. (I am counting the employer plus employee share, which is correct.)
Public employees are already in some states turning against mandatory pension requirements. As they see their contributions go up and benefits down many especially newer employees in some states would rather do it themselves.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:39 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,063,137 times
Reputation: 1648
Tuborg- here is the disconnect with pols (both sides) I listen to Kudlow and he rails against the lousy return on investment on social security but at the same time criticizes public pensions as overly lucrative. My real life example is that with social security my wife and I will receive about $2500 at age 62. With my pension we will receive $5000. The contribution over the years for both have been about the same between the employee and employer portion. Kudlow and the other conservative critics keep saying we need to privatize ss because the roi is inadequate. They keep saying that invested on our own we would have substantial more monthly retirement income. At the same time they claim public pensions are paying to much. The fact is that public pensions are an example on what can be paid if ss was allowed to invest in the market.

For those that say but the public pensions are in fiscal distress that is solely because employer contributions were not made not that the roi and pension formula did not work. SS would be in worse shape if for 20 years there were no employer contributions made.
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:00 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,172 posts, read 2,084,322 times
Reputation: 2599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryinva View Post
This wasn't the article, but it basically spells out the same/similar thing. Also points out that while SS is an insurance, its not insurance for you, but instead insurance premiums you pay, to support the previous generation. The next generation then will pay the premiums to protect you. The first receivers of SS didn't pay anything of course, becasue the generation they would have paid for was already dead. Interesting take on it.

Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get | PolitiFact
Nowhere in the article do they say that the old age benefit portion of SS is an insurance. The only time they mention insurance they are referring to the disability and survivors elements of the program.

Regardless of the reality that current SS taxes are used to pay benefits to current retirees, the reality is that people do feel like they are "getting back" what they paid in once benefits start. It's only natural that people would feel that the deal they made was to pay these taxes in return for eventually getting their benefit. I fully recognize the reality is different (reference my earlier posts on the topic), but the psychology is that people feel that they have earned a benefit by virtue of all the taxes they have paid over their working life. I don't think that attitude is going to change, which is part of what makes reform such a thorny issue.

The article also states that "the federal government has long paid out most Social Security revenues to beneficiaries, leaving the government and future workers with what amounts to an IOU to cover the next generation of beneficiaries." Kind of a vague statement because I don't know what "long" means to them. The reality is that 1985 through 2009 the total in SS taxes collected exceeded the amount paid in benefits. This is the source of the trust fund, which by act of Congress was loaned to the federal government (i.e. the trust fund bought U.S. government bonds) to be used to pay for the general expenses of running the government.

Dave

Dave

Last edited by Cnynrat; 04-19-2015 at 08:15 AM..
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