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Old 04-19-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
1,189 posts, read 1,296,472 times
Reputation: 921

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
Tuborg- here is the disconnect with pols (both sides) I listen to Kudlow and he rails against the lousy return on investment on social security but at the same time criticizes public pensions as overly lucrative. My real life example is that with social security my wife and I will receive about $2500 at age 62. With my pension we will receive $5000. The contribution over the years for both have been about the same between the employee and employer portion. Kudlow and the other conservative critics keep saying we need to privatize ss because the roi is inadequate. They keep saying that invested on our own we would have substantial more monthly retirement income. At the same time they claim public pensions are paying to much. The fact is that public pensions are an example on what can be paid if ss was allowed to invest in the market.

For those that say but the public pensions are in fiscal distress that is solely because employer contributions were not made not that the roi and pension formula did not work. SS would be in worse shape if for 20 years there were no employer contributions made.
Of course investing in the broad market would have outstripped SS returns but remember the market has been going up on balance since 1982/1974. What happens to those returns in a full blown long term bear market?
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:41 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,062,405 times
Reputation: 1648
My point is that both sides argue both sides. R's want ss invested in the market through privatization but rail against public pensions as overly lucrative that do exactly what they say privatization would do for ss. Dems do the exact opposite protect public pensions but deny ss contributors the same options.
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:49 AM
 
71,539 posts, read 71,712,424 times
Reputation: 49125
which is why social security is a trade off between whether you want to invest in the risk of your own longevity or in market risk.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:59 AM
 
7,981 posts, read 3,464,079 times
Reputation: 11230
Christie is viewed by some as a bully with an unfiltered big mouth. Don't see the possibility of him being elected.
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:23 AM
 
29,778 posts, read 34,863,854 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
My point is that both sides argue both sides. R's want ss invested in the market through privatization but rail against public pensions as overly lucrative that do exactly what they say privatization would do for ss. Dems do the exact opposite protect public pensions but deny ss contributors the same options.
Clarification, privatization would be a defined contribution plan without a guaranteed payout unless invested in gov't bonds. There would be no guaranteed payout. Pensions are defined benefit where the payout is set regardless of market returns.
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Staten Island
1,653 posts, read 1,794,497 times
Reputation: 2353
Very disappointed in Christies plan. Sounds more like he is pandering for votes to the left.
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,878,179 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Clarification, privatization would be a defined contribution plan without a guaranteed payout unless invested in gov't bonds. There would be no guaranteed payout. Pensions are defined benefit where the payout is set regardless of market returns.
I think we always have to have at least one option on the table with a guaranteed payout. If we don't do that upfront, we will end up doing it with some kind of aid to bail out the people who screwed up choosing their own investments. We can't just let them starve (well, I can't).
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:40 AM
 
950 posts, read 714,675 times
Reputation: 1615
Seems most posters automatically believe if SS was done away with everyone would invest in high return investments and retire well off.

I have bridges to sell those folk

The govt would be supporting a lot of old people via welfare if SS was done away with.
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:41 AM
 
950 posts, read 714,675 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by carvedtones View Post
i think we always have to have at least one option on the table with a guaranteed payout. If we don't do that upfront, we will end up doing it with some kind of aid to bail out the people who screwed up choosing their own investments. We can't just let them starve (well, i can't).

bingo !
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:42 AM
 
2,294 posts, read 1,560,729 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
Of course investing in the broad market would have outstripped SS returns but remember the market has been going up on balance since 1982/1974. What happens to those returns in a full blown long term bear market?
I read where the rate of return on as contributions is .3 of 1%. Basically nothing.
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