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Old 04-19-2015, 11:45 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,064,093 times
Reputation: 1648

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Tuborg- but these current public pensions have verifiable 30 plus years of returns on which the pension is based on. The pensions paid to current retirees and those near retirement have been paid for based on the formula that was established.
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,747,361 times
Reputation: 32309
Quote:
Originally Posted by VJDAY81445 View Post
Seems most posters automatically believe if SS was done away with everyone would invest in high return investments and retire well off.

I have bridges to sell those folk

The govt would be supporting a lot of old people via welfare if SS was done away with.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

On a societal level, if the "savings" weren't forced via mandatory FICA tax deductions, then LOTS of people simply would not save at all, and I don't mean only poor people, but lots of middle class people wouldn't save either. That is human nature - tomorrow is a long way off and many people would choose to live it up today.

And let's not have the argument that they can just live under bridges and dumpster dive in old age, because our society would not allow that and we (that is, government) would be supporting them anyway.

I had an uncle, now deceased, who used to rail against Social Security. "Let me choose to do it myself", he would say, "It's wrong for Big Brother government to force me to save that way". You can guess what I'm going to write next: If it weren't for Social Security he would have been totally destitute in old age; he never could manage money worth a damn, so SS is what he lived off for the last years of his life.
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
8 posts, read 5,750 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Its a reasonable proposal. Other changes will have to happen in SS, so its time to get started. But I wish they would first tighten up the requirements for people to get SS disability. Far too many lazy, fat, alcoholics and drug addicts are getting benefits, when they could and should be working. If my handicapped son can do it, and people in wheelchairs, then others can too.

There are also far too many plutocrats who are raping people across the globe via "Privatization"... Far more than any of those lazy alcoholics, I might add. Clean up at the top, and the bottom, not just at the bottom, because they have no means to defend themselves, sir.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:08 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,881,013 times
Reputation: 6291
Fraud is bad and should be prosecuted but every report I have seen with actual data from audits and investigations indicates fraud is not nearly as widespread as is often perceived.
Social Security disability fraud is rare | TheHill
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:26 PM
 
950 posts, read 715,339 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvedTones View Post
Fraud is bad and should be prosecuted but every report I have seen with actual data from audits and investigations indicates fraud is not nearly as widespread as is often perceived.
Social Security disability fraud is rare | TheHill

Hard to believe when an investigative TV report had ex-employees from law firms on who stated their former company only handles Disability SS .

Most of them left due to the increasing un-ethical coaching that the clients were being given.

Many of them stated they doubted if 1 out of 3 of their clients who won were actually disabled.

Disability SS is a huge money maker for lawyers, but only if they win.

To specialize just in Disability SS you need lots of clients and have to win most of your cases.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:44 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,881,013 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by VJDAY81445 View Post
Hard to believe when an investigative TV report had ex-employees from law firms on who stated their former company only handles Disability SS .

Most of them left due to the increasing un-ethical coaching that the clients were being given.

Many of them stated they doubted if 1 out of 3 of their clients who won were actually disabled.

Disability SS is a huge money maker for lawyers, but only if they win.

To specialize just in Disability SS you need lots of clients and have to win most of your cases.
I just grabbed one of several reports on reports on fraud. They tend to be over blown and sensationalize how often it happens. Only 40% of applications are accepted; those accepted die in the next 5 years at a rate of about 5 times the average. They are mostly people in very poor health. Sure, a few get through and scam the system. We do need to clamp down on them. But too often I see wild exaggerations of the rate of fraud, which are unsubstantiated (listing off a few specific incidents does not substantiate a rate), used to make the argument that it's a waste of money to even fund the program in question. But the evidence just isn't there.
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:10 PM
 
9,398 posts, read 6,272,061 times
Reputation: 17755
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothetwist View Post
"Social Security" when taken out of your paycheck, is labelled FICA. FICA stands for Federal INSURANCE Contributions Act. It's a required insurance program into which everyone must pay.

.
The problem is that the AHoles in DC (both parties) used the collected insurance money to fund the general treasury. Same as gas/highway tax.
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:21 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,881,013 times
Reputation: 6291
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
The problem is that the AHoles in DC (both parties) used the collected insurance money to fund the general treasury. Same as gas/highway tax.
I am a little jaded on how government allocates and designates funds. Unless they default and don't actually make promised payments it doesn't bother me that much that there isn't a specific account with the full balance in it. It would still be just numbers on a sheet that they either honor or they don't when it comes due.
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Location: USA
271 posts, read 315,036 times
Reputation: 153
Didn't read through all the posts but when I think of means testing, asset testing come to mind in addition to income.
Has asset testing been brought up?
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,220,203 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron60 View Post
Didn't read through all the posts but when I think of means testing, asset testing come to mind in addition to income.
Has asset testing been brought up?
Now that would be a hoot. But, no, that will never happen for more reasons than I have time to list.
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