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Old 04-16-2015, 09:13 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,375,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark bridge View Post
Having worked with U.S. Treasury securities, there's something to keep in mind: a registration on an account (or security) is set in stone. All the wills and trusts in the world will not over ride a registration or named beneficiary. If a securities account is registered "John Doe or Jane Doe" and John dies, the account goes to Jane, even if John has a will (or even a trust) that names someone else as beneficiary. If John wants the securities account to be dispensed according to his trust, the the accout must be registered to the trust. If John wanted someone other than Jane to receive the account, then the registration should have been updated to show the new co-owner or beneficiary.

This also goes for savings bonds. If you have savings bonds and your former spose is named on the bond as co-owner or beneficiary, that registration needs changing to remove the former spouse's name and, if desired, add a new co-owner or beneficiary.

Again, I cannot stress this enough, a will (or trust if the securities or account is not registered to the trust) means nothing. I can't tell you the number of arguments...er, disagreements I've had with attorneys who love quoting state regs. Federal regs trump state regs for U.S Treasury securities.

Another thing to keep in mind, a named beneficiary on a pension, bank account, IRA, etc., trumps a will. Be sure your accounts are up-to-date. The last thing you want is your spouse four marriages ago to get all of those assets upon your death!
Excellent advice.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,948 posts, read 5,305,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
Most people/families have a very hard time talking about money and death. Combine the two... no wonder so many messes happen with planning for the end of life.

Pre-nups are even worse = love + money + death (of a marriage...) all in one! Explosive.

You are the rarity of you and your family (or your new spouse...) can talk about these issues openly, without rancor.

I don't think they are a rarity. Most families talk about these things quite often.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Idaho
1,454 posts, read 1,155,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
What I meant is they wait so long and then just never set the trust up.
There are a number of reasons for the delays and omissions: cost, complexity, subconscious denial of one's mortality, wishful thinking etc

For me, I had planned to setup a trust a long time ago, bought a book, read several books & many articles etc but had not found the time to do a complete analysis to come up with the final best option.

Reading the replies in this thread gave me some ideas and actions to take immediately instead of waiting until I fully analyze and identify the best type of trust to setup.

I like mathjak107's idea of life insurance. Instead of going out and obtain a life insurance, I had just gone online and changed my work life insurance's beneficiary from my husband to my daughter. To complete the change, all I need to do is to have my husband sign the consent form.

The next thing is to do the same with my 401K and my husband's 401K. We will sign the consent forms to have my daughter as the beneficiary for both. Each of our 401K constitutes around 20% of our liquid asset. I have done the math and am quite certain that when one of us passes away, the survivor will do just fine with the fixed asset (paid for home/plane/cars), SS/pension payment and remaining liquid asset (without the other person's 401K).

I figured that we have contributed pretty much equally to our asset. I think it is fair for me to give 20% of the asset directly to my daughter and leave 30% to my husband. He can do whatever he wants with his 50% share + the 30% from me.

I completely trust my husband to do the right thing. What I don't trust him is whether he will do the right thing timely or correctly ;-) He absolutely hates legal and financial stuffs so there is zero chance that he would think of a prenup if and when he marries again.

Last edited by BellaDL; 04-16-2015 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:28 AM
 
825 posts, read 564,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaDL View Post
There are a number of reasons for the delays and omissions: cost, complexity, subconscious denial of one's mortality, wishful thinking etc

For me, I had planned to setup a trust a long time ago, bought a book, read several books & many articles etc but had not found the time to do a complete analysis to come up with the final best option.

Reading the replies in this thread gave me some ideas and actions to take immediately instead of waiting until I fully analyze and identify the best type of trust to setup.

I like mathjak107's idea of life insurance. Instead of going out and obtain a life insurance, I had just gone online and changed my work life insurance's beneficiary from my husband to my daughter. To complete the change, all I need to do is to have my husband sign the consent form.

The next thing is to do the same with my 401K and my husband's 401K. We will sign the consent forms to have my daughter as the beneficiary for both. Each of our 401K constitutes around 20% of our liquid asset. I have done the math and am quite certain that when one of us passes away, the survivor will do just fine with the fixed asset (paid for home/plane/cars), SS/pension payment and remaining liquid asset (without the other person's 401K).

I figured that we have contributed pretty much equally to our asset. I think it is fair for me to give 20% of the asset directly to my daughter and leave 30% to my husband. He can do whatever he wants with his 50% share + the 30% from me.

I completely trust my husband to do the right thing. What I don't trust him is whether he will do the right thing timely or correctly ;-) He absolutely hates legal and financial stuffs so there is zero chance that he would think of a prenup if and when he marries again.
My ex is just like this. That's why he remarried hastily without making any provisions whatsoever for his children to inherit his 401(k) worth over a million, and now it cannot be undone. His new wife inherits the whole thing automatically. That's why I said upthread in my warning about 401(k)s that one can inadvertently disinherit one's children.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:37 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,375,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
I don't think they are a rarity. Most families talk about these things quite often.
Not in my circle - neither family or friends.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:44 AM
 
6,814 posts, read 3,867,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
If they are jointly owned then jointly owned by whom ?

if it is spouse and child then you effectively cut the surviving spouse off regardless when you die.

if it is both spouses and children then the surviving spouse can take it all or still has access to spend it. .

not much different then the trust , it still isn't helping the surviving spouse if that was a concern.
.
Well, it all depends on who you feel may be the irresponsible party. In my case it is certainly not my wonderful husband but his greedy do nothing son. My husband will never starve and has more than adequate assets of his own as well as our jointly owned home, if it should ever come to that.
Wills are easily changed at the last minute and that is one way elderly people are often fooled at the end when they aren't thinking clearly. Trusts are more secure.

Last edited by Harpaint; 04-16-2015 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
7,669 posts, read 4,712,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
Not in my circle - neither family or friends.
Nor mine.

I have so many friends (and a family member) whose fathers remarried late in life. Whether the men intended it or not, their second wife got everything.

My father remarried after he divorced my mother but it no surprise he left us bupkis. He resented us and the claim we had on Mom's attention all our lives. I'd say he should have gotten a vasectomy but then I wouldn't be here.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:44 PM
 
130 posts, read 101,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
Trusts are more secure.
The big difference between a trust and a will is that a will can successfully be contested in court. It is next to impossible to contest a trust in court.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:50 PM
 
71,594 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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unless it is missing wording or missed dealing with issues and deemed to have a defect which is all to common.

we went through it so I know.

there was a trust by grandparents that excluded estranged grand children by name.

turns out that their father died before the parents and the trust was missing a sentence pertaining to predeceasing
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:17 PM
 
6,814 posts, read 3,867,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
unless it is missing wording or missed dealing with issues and deemed to have a defect which is all to common.

we went through it so I know.

there was a trust by grandparents that excluded estranged grand children by name.

turns out that their father died before the parents and the trust was missing a sentence pertaining to predeceasing
That can also happen with a will. Either one should be drawn up by an attorney who specializes in the field in the particular state involved.
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