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Old 04-18-2015, 07:04 PM
 
248 posts, read 268,357 times
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I'd rather that society helped people live simply with some help, then that we randomly criminalize them as 'the homeless' or 'vagrants' and then put them in jail at taxpayer expense which would be far more dollars up front and forever.

It costs approximately $55,000 a year to arrest someone, charge them with something, take them to court, try, convict and then house them, feed them and give them minimal medical care. And for most people, that's the end of their working life since being an ex-con doesn't exactly translate into employability.

Alternatively, ~$12,000 a year would be plenty for a modest lifestyle and 100% of it is recycled directly back into the immediate economy.

I'd also rather spend that on good people down on their luck (don't get me started on why) than on the endless wars our criminal government is always ginning up.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:38 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,424,580 times
Reputation: 1971
But more than likely these people HAVE been subsidized over their lifetime, free education, unemployment compensation etc. yet they keep squandering these resources. I'd be more than happy to chip in for their "living" IF they'd stop being a drain on society by their antisocial behavior.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:44 PM
 
5,621 posts, read 8,570,441 times
Reputation: 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
This is something I point out often, and people just look at me as if I have 3 heads or something.

Do an online search for Depression-era photographs of bread lines, soup lines. Notice that all the people in those lines are MEN. What happened to the women, the children? Truth is, they had to rely on church charity, and many of them slept outdoors all night. Many of them became ill, and died.

Women and children are the "hidden poor", the people that everybody assumes are being taken care of by men. Usually, they are not. They are the ones bravely trying to look "normal" at school, at work, in public. More $$$ are spent on helping men, while the women and kids run around trying to make ends meet in whatever manner possible. Often, they succeed, while their men lie around drunk all day and all night.
Actually the TRUTH is that most of the aid available is for women/children, not men.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:14 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,928 posts, read 2,891,269 times
Reputation: 6313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
Actually the TRUTH is that most of the aid available is for women/children, not men.
When I have volunteered to do grocery deliveries, that seemed to be true. But in brown bag lunch lines, it was mostly men. Hot meals brought out a more even mix. But that has just been one spot (Moore's Square in Raleigh) where I have had experience for the meals and a nearby suburb for deliveries. One of the saddest things I have ever seen was a guy walking over to a house as we were leaving carrying a box of bottles and cigarette cartons, no doubt looking to trade for goods we had just left with a family. But I think the vast majority of the goods did feed hungry children and families; the ones playing the system just stick out in our minds more.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,350,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
Well, then Linda_D and Escort Rider -- you're right, of course. I take it back. We should never teach the kids anything about money, employment and retirement. Let's just keep things the way they are. Because, after all, there are too many kids from dysfunctional families who will probably (not definitely, but just probably) not benefit from this kind of education.

Plus, I admit -- the government bears no responsibility for its older citizens, who don't need a livable income in old age. (Elizabeth Warren deemed a livable minimum wage at $22.50/hr.)

And then the next generation will be on C-D complaining about how it's absolutely none of their fault that they are living in poverty in old age.

And the next generation.

And the next generation.



I didn't say all poor people. Neither did Escort Rider. There were a couple of threads talking about being temporarily poor and about hopelessness, and I pointed out that people who come from families that have been poor for several generations often have impediments to improving their situations that other people don't have. Like Escort Rider, I was a teacher, although not for my entire career, so I've seen it first hand.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,350,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
but more than likely these people have been subsidized over their lifetime, free education, unemployment compensation etc. Yet they keep squandering these resources. I'd be more than happy to chip in for their "living" if they'd stop being a drain on society by their antisocial behavior.
nonsense.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:57 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,424,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
nonsense.
No, I really would be willing to pay. As was pointed out responsible people are already paying more for these people and still suffer from their behavior. The nonsense is to keep paying for these people and allowing them to crap on responsible peoples lives.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,453 posts, read 2,781,322 times
Reputation: 16426
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
But more than likely these people HAVE been subsidized over their lifetime, free education, unemployment compensation etc. yet they keep squandering these resources. I'd be more than happy to chip in for their "living" IF they'd stop being a drain on society by their antisocial behavior.
Free education? If you're talking about college, what planet are you living on, because I'll move there. When it comes to public school for kids, ALL kids get free education and we ALL pay for it, even those of us without kids. Even the people receiving welfare pay for your kids to go to public school from their taxes, if they're working.

Unemployment compensation? Not for a lifetime. I don't know anyone who receives unemployment for a lifetime and certainly not without working for a certain number of years first.

And by antisocial, do you mean me? I don't like people and I'm about as antisocial as you can get. How does my staying in my room and being antisocial affect anyone?
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Northwest Arkansas/Temporarily Memphis
523 posts, read 374,517 times
Reputation: 1213
I think what everyone is missing is that those of us under 40, and really under 30 are not going to have much if any assistance when we turn 65. The SS will be depleted due to it being bankrupted in 2033 as has been shown by several economists Why is Social Security running out of money?, and I for one haven't been able to save due to student loan costs and scarcity of jobs combined with low wages and inflation and cost of living being out of control. The baby boomers are going to consume it all, and there will be nothing left.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:15 PM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,928 posts, read 2,891,269 times
Reputation: 6313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveswater_outdoors View Post
I think what everyone is missing is that those of us under 40, and really under 30 are not going to have much if any assistance when we turn 65. The SS will be depleted due to it being bankrupted in 2033 as has been shown by several economists Why is Social Security running out of money?, and I for one haven't been able to save due to student loan costs and scarcity of jobs combined with low wages and inflation and cost of living being out of control. The baby boomers are going to consume it all, and there will be nothing left.
Actually the article you point to says if no changes are made before then SS would still be able to pay out more than 3/4 of its obligations that year. That's not good news, but it isn't bankrupt; bumping the cap would push that out several years and eliminating the cap (which I would vote for) would fix it forever. And I do make more than the cap so I am actually willing to put some money where my mouth is. But I am late 50s, so it wouldn't be for long. More young people need to vote. It really isn't fair that so much about SS is controlled by those of us either receiving it or nearing eligibility. It's a voluntary unfairness but an unfairness just the same. Not sure what can be done about that.
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