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Old 04-17-2015, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,341,108 times
Reputation: 13779

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Well, whatever we believe, the reality is that if the seniors who are getting gov't assistance cease to get any, or never got any, there would be an awful lot of elderly folks living on the streets, placed in temporary housing (at taxpayer expense) and inevitably going from there on to permanent subsidized housing (how many shelters can continue to retain so many).

As someone on another thread aptly pointed out, subsidized senior housing is an industry (for owners), with profit. Seems like even the poor get money made off them. It's all part of the natural cycle of our system, capitalism. IOW, even if housing were not provided to economically poor seniors, taxpayers inevitably help in some way, with or without their consent. It's the system we have created, so why rail against it. I'd like to hear some alternatives in which taxpayers do not pay.
Agree.

Many today people complain about panhandlers and/or groups of homeless living in boxes in remote areas of parks. What they don't realize is that back in the early 20th century, the poorer areas of cities were overrun with homeless people, especially the old and the young. People frequently died in the streets from exposure or starvation. Americans tended to ignore this as simply a problem of "the lazy and shiftless and alcoholics" (much as they do today) until the Great Depression overwhelmed the country and demonstrated that most people were vulnerable to possible homelessness and starvation, especially the old and the young, whether they "deserved" to be or not.
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Old 04-17-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
7,629 posts, read 14,389,649 times
Reputation: 18712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
To the original poster (Yellowsnow): Your story about your friend is valuable because it is an illustration of an actual case with actual numbers, as opposed to a generalized rant about the elderly poor or about a heartless society. And of course your story shows how incredibly generous the safety net is, if not in this country as a whole, at least in Las Vegas. (I am assuming that certain benefits vary from state to state and/or from locality to locality). I hope I will be able to remember your thread title in order to be able to use your original post in the future the next time someone starts bellyaching about how rough seniors have it in this country. Thanks for your rational, thoughtful, and balanced manner of presenting the story.

To Dollydo (writer of post #21): I could not rep you again this soon, but your point is an excellent one. When we read the details about your irresponsible friend, it is difficult if not impossible not to feel anger about how her irresponsibility is so generously rewarded, and about how those generous rewards are taken from all the rest of us.
Just to be clear, I am in favor of having a safety net in society. The point I am raising has to do with how we would characterize the safety net which is actually in place; I would characterize it as incredibly generous.
^^^^^^^Amen!!! The fact that those that have not planned seem to be much better off than those that have made the efforts makes you wonder HOW social services ever got to this point that the handouts are greater than the benefits earned for working your fair share if physically able.

All that "free" stuff comes from someone's pockets!!! It only appears free to those that have never had their pockets picked to receive it!

For ANYONE under the age of 60 I think that this kind of assistance should be on a WPA type of program, where no matter WHAT you could do, you were held accountable to show up and provide SOME kind of "community service" allowing you to both remain active and involved, and giving you the gumption to better yourself.
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Old 04-17-2015, 09:51 AM
 
8,870 posts, read 5,149,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paka View Post
^^^^^^^Amen!!! The fact that those that have not planned seem to be much better off than those that have made the efforts makes you wonder HOW social services ever got to this point that the handouts are greater than the benefits earned for working your fair share if physically able.

All that "free" stuff comes from someone's pockets!!! It only appears free to those that have never had their pockets picked to receive it!

For ANYONE under the age of 60 I think that this kind of assistance should be on a WPA type of program, where no matter WHAT you could do, you were held accountable to show up and provide SOME kind of "community service" allowing you to both remain active and involved, and giving you the gumption to better yourself.
I think so too, because it would be better for everyone. The person receiving the assistance would feel better about themselves (self-respect) and hopefully would learn a skill leading to self-sufficiency. People are happier when they are self-sufficient.
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,341,108 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paka View Post
^^^^^^^Amen!!! The fact that those that have not planned seem to be much better off than those that have made the efforts makes you wonder HOW social services ever got to this point that the handouts are greater than the benefits earned for working your fair share if physically able.

All that "free" stuff comes from someone's pockets!!! It only appears free to those that have never had their pockets picked to receive it!

For ANYONE under the age of 60 I think that this kind of assistance should be on a WPA type of program, where no matter WHAT you could do, you were held accountable to show up and provide SOME kind of "community service" allowing you to both remain active and involved, and giving you the gumption to better yourself.
How is paying $300/month rent to live in a crappy trailer "better" than living in your own home or in a nice senior house/apartment, which are not available as subsidized units? I suggest you check out some of the tackier trailer parks in your area.

I have a neighbor eeking by on < $800 a month social security. She was widowed early with 4 kids, and she only has a HS diploma. She lost at least two jobs when the businesses she worked for closed up. So, she should be put out on the street and left to starve so that you don't have your pocket picked by such an "undeserving" woman who didn't "plan" well enough for her old age?
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,895 posts, read 25,351,824 times
Reputation: 26407
Most of us worry too much and anguish over all the what if's. The moral of the story is that we will be OK even if the worst happens. I'm glad seniors here don't have to live on the street. Most of the stories about seniors and poverty seem to relate to owning property. Owning property pretty much means no benefits. If you don't own a home it makes a huge difference.
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,895 posts, read 25,351,824 times
Reputation: 26407
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Yellowsnow, we really need to point out that "cash on hand" IS included in assets and your friend who chooses to hide it is committing fraud.

I'm going to run the numbers later and see if the maximum SNAP benefit is applicable given the numbers you have provided as well as full assistance with Medicare Parts B and D. It's not that I think you are wrong, it's that I enjoy running the numbers (kind of like Mathjak but for poor people).

However, without running the numbers we still need to help your friend with moving expenses.
Dave already made it here. And he is waiting on his SNAP determination for here. He knows it might go down. He is hedging his bets by volunteering at the food pantries.
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Old 04-17-2015, 11:53 AM
 
Location: middle tennessee
1,926 posts, read 994,079 times
Reputation: 6998
How many here have paid someone "cash" because it was cheaper
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Old 04-17-2015, 11:58 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
7,629 posts, read 14,389,649 times
Reputation: 18712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
How is paying $300/month rent to live in a crappy trailer "better" than living in your own home or in a nice senior house/apartment, which are not available as subsidized units? I suggest you check out some of the tackier trailer parks in your area.

I have a neighbor eeking by on < $800 a month social security. She was widowed early with 4 kids, and she only has a HS diploma. She lost at least two jobs when the businesses she worked for closed up. So, she should be put out on the street and left to starve so that you don't have your pocket picked by such an "undeserving" woman who didn't "plan" well enough for her old age?
My Amen was to Dollydo AND your neighbor with 4 kids, widowed early SHOULD be receiving Social Security payments for her 4 kids from their daddy PLUS for herself as their care provider if they are less than 16 yrs of age or disabled. Per the SS Benefits info:

The number of credits needed to provide benefits for survivors depends on the worker's age when he or she dies. The younger a person is, the fewer credits he or she must have for family members to receive survivors benefits. But no one needs more than 40 credits (10 years of work) to be eligible for any Social Security benefit.

However, benefits can be paid to the worker's children and the surviving spouse who is caring for the children even if the worker doesn't have the required number of credits. They can get benefits if the worker has credit for one and one-half years of work (6 credits) in the three years just before his or her death.

Has she checked on that? Seems it would certainly help her out. Hopefully anyone old enough to have fathered 4 children would have been old enough to have at LEAST 1 1/2 yrs work history.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:55 PM
 
4,490 posts, read 4,752,310 times
Reputation: 9972
It's the entitlements and it's not just retirees who get them. So many of the patients I deal with day in/day out are living off the government. AND they feel entitled to it, AND they are the first to tell you that you aren't doing enough for them.
So, for many they can survive well because they learn the ins/outs of all the programs and do whatever, say whatever they have to to get what they can for free.

I see many able people who refuse to work or even volunteer. But they can shove coke up their nose, shoot heroin, drink themselves into liver disease and it's all on our dime.

So, not just the retired people. It's a very broken system all around.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:55 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 5,729,542 times
Reputation: 11933
The problem occurs when the cost of living goes up, as it inevitably does, and your income remains fixed.
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