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Old 05-26-2015, 07:10 AM
 
71,735 posts, read 71,829,507 times
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no , it means just what it says. if nothing is always right or wrong they can't be wrong that often because then they are right. around and around we go..
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:16 AM
 
6,305 posts, read 4,746,934 times
Reputation: 12914
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Thank you for finally admitting that you are not absolutely 100% certain that your mortgage strategy is the winning one.

*lets out big sigh of relief*
If you are only willing to consider the absolutely worst case scenarios, you find a bomb shelter and dig in. Certainly you should not invest. You should probably consider a less risky alternative to banking, credit cards, and paper money.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:32 AM
 
71,735 posts, read 71,829,507 times
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That would be false. Planning for worst case when there may be little chance for a do over is what the entire safe withdrawal rate is based on.

It is to find a base that can weather any storm known so far . anything better than can be adjusted upward down the road but the base is worst case.
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,751,136 times
Reputation: 32309
Can I be the only reader here who is tiring of semantic games trumping substance?
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:07 AM
 
6,305 posts, read 4,746,934 times
Reputation: 12914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Can I be the only reader here who is tiring of semantic games trumping substance?
I would agree.

I am also having a hard time deciding if people who post here just enjoy arguing or are truly dense. Maybe it is past time to start some new topics with more substance. Any ideas? I am off to the dentists so that may be it for any other efforts for today.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:51 AM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,420,794 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post

where honobob is lost is he does not realize there is no number , it will be a range of outcomes based on hundreds or thousands of simulations of outcomes that can happen based on each years return ,expenses ,interest rates and most important sequences and inflation.
.
mathjak107,

You are the one that confuses net worth for cash in hand. You want to count the mortgage expense as negative but do not want to utilize the other side of the mortgage which is the EXTRA $600,000 in investment money.

Since you continue to use average returns you are excluding the above average returns. I agreed from the start that if you are an average investor you're probably better off without a mortgage. For not just financial reasons. LOL

You are also using investment returns from one asset class.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:05 PM
 
12,708 posts, read 9,984,291 times
Reputation: 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
If you are only willing to consider the absolutely worst case scenarios, you find a bomb shelter and dig in. Certainly you should not invest. You should probably consider a less risky alternative to banking, credit cards, and paper money.
Not a good analogy. The type of "prepper" lifestyle you speak of limits one's living a lot more severely than paying a mortgage off, if you still have a healthy net worth relative to spending levels.

Plus, what are the odds of being blown up in a minefield (when not in active combat military duty) vs. a net portfolio loss relative to interest cost? There's an orders of magnitude difference there. One is something that has never happened to the family of anyone I know, and the other is something that lots of people go through at least once every few decades.

In other words, you are comparing a risk which is non-negligible to one which is negligible - and it's a bad analogy.

And by the way, you yourself admitted that market crashes are a non-negligible risk when I asked about put options and you said you don't "gamble".

I am simply pointing out that you have a very strange double standard that you have yet to try to explain.

Last edited by ncole1; 05-26-2015 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:27 PM
 
12,708 posts, read 9,984,291 times
Reputation: 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
I would agree.

I am also having a hard time deciding if people who post here just enjoy arguing or are truly dense. Maybe it is past time to start some new topics with more substance. Any ideas? I am off to the dentists so that may be it for any other efforts for today.
What I would like to know is, why do you believe that your financial risk tolerance level should apply to others, despite the subjectivity of the benefits of money?

The only reason I keep hammering the same point over and over is that you have repeatedly ignored the issue and continue to assert or imply that paying a mortgage off early is excessively risk-averse.

Mathjak and I have very patiently asked you why you think this is so, and so far all you seem to say is that the risk is low. This sidesteps the issue of why you think your risk threshold is appropriate.

The other question I have, is why is playing with options "gambling" but borrowing money to invest is not? They both perform the same way - in fact, this is a key feature of the Capital Asset Pricing Model.

If one of them is "gambling", then so is the other.

You can't have it both ways.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: PA
838 posts, read 1,019,024 times
Reputation: 1758
I am 37 and my husband and I have a paid off mortgage. Its all pretty fresh, but I have to say it is nice not having that mortgage bill come in the mail every month, and seeing hundreds of dollars go to interest. It adds up overtime, and it is not money you will ever get back (unless you like spending $1.00 to get $0.30 per dollar back on interest come tax time).
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
12,545 posts, read 4,242,077 times
Reputation: 9870
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
My mother recently passed away, leaving a multiple of enough money to pay off our relatively small mortgage, around $65,000. A financial adviser I talked to advised not doing this since having no outstanding debt would lower my credit score, which now stands in the 700's.
Get a new advisor.
Of course your "advisor" doesn't want you to pay off the mortgage.
He wants the funds to be sent to his company instead.
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