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Old 08-15-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: headed out of socal
166 posts, read 185,535 times
Reputation: 273

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Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
It's worse now that Obamacare is law. Everything those doctors write down goes into permanent records and follows the patient around. If you show up in an ER and a doctor asks about something out of the blue you can bet he got it from your permanent records. One of the goals of ACA was to make your health records available to all. Health records is a big umbrella. They will ask if you ever have thoughts of injuring yourself and if you have access to firearms.
What the hell does that have to do with my arm needing stitches? Nothing, they just found out you have firearms and it is going on record.
Big Brother is watching you.
Nice to know. I never go to the doctor except for extreme emergencies. Once I sliced my finger to the bone from a broken plate by accident, and when I went to the ER I eventually gave up waiting, so I went home and superglued it together (after learning that superglue was actually invented to put together wounds on the battlefield), it healed in a few weeks, still a minor almost invisible scar a year later but hardly worse than if I had gotten stitches. Most things you can do yourself if you have aptitude. I actually bought stitches to do it myself but then read that after 24 hours you shouldn't get stitches.

The only thing I ever went to the doctor for that I really needed was when I got a bacterial throat infection, in which case antibiotics are required.

Probably 99% of the things people "go to the doctor" for, the doctor can't really do anything and just says "don't move it" or "give it some rest" and then gives you some drugs you don't need.

However, with some basic first aid knowledge, you would already know these things, and it is better to go without any drugs. If you are in pain, over-the-counter ibuprofin will do just fine, no prescription needed.

The important thing is just exercise well and eat well, avoiding processed foods, sugars, artificial sweeteners and other poisons, and eating a lot of high-fat, high-cholesterol natural foods.

I was certified as a personal trainer before, and i've been through cpr training, and with knowledge of a few things like rice for strains, sprains, and broken bones, you barely ever need the doctor. Splints, casts, wraps, braces (leg, arm, etc not teeth) and other first aid supplies are all readily available at your nearby pharmacy or grocery store including rite aid, cvs, etc, no doctor's prescription required.

I keep a very complete first aid kit at home for all emergencies now. I always have everything on hand that is needed, even stitches and more rare medical supplies now. I haven't been to the doctor except once for a checkup in over 10 years. I went last year for a checkup and I am in perfect health.

That said, if you are not very bright, maybe you should trust a doctor for your health needs.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
5,306 posts, read 5,984,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemencia53 View Post
I was thinking the same thing. If you think it is a good idea to try to fool people that you can still hear or see without any problems, that sounds like you are not thinking straight.
Not really. It is common for the elderly to delay having their hearing corrected. It is not sufficient to allege that because someone does not seek to correct a hearing loss that the person no longer has the capacity to make his own medical and/or financial decisions.

Although it is unusual that the elderly with financial means will not have their vision checked and corrected, if necessary, failure to have one's vision checked also fails to establish incapacity.
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Old 08-16-2015, 10:57 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,232,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
In a sense, having severe hearing or vision problems and doing nothing about it is prima facie evidence of lack of competency. Yes, sometimes these deficits are not correctable, but those are not the cases I am talking about.
By the same logic, people who live in a fascist country such as the USA are prima facie incompetent, regardless of their age. Having severe fascism problems and doing nothing about it, such as moving to a free country. In fact the USA has millions of incompetent people of all ages. That's why we vote to give the 1% more power at the expense of the 99%. It's the illogical behavior of the incompetent.

Senior citizens having their assets seized because they neglect to get their hearing or vision corrected is a form of oppression. We're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. When black people had to ride at the back of the bus, that was a less severe form of oppression than what senior citizens face now. After all, how did it hurt to ride at the back of the bus? Senior citizens can get hearing aids and eyglasses, and black people can sit patiently at the back of the bus. By your logic, that's the way it should be.
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,869,471 times
Reputation: 32530
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
By the same logic, people who live in a fascist country such as the USA are prima facie incompetent, regardless of their age. Having severe fascism problems and doing nothing about it, such as moving to a free country. In fact the USA has millions of incompetent people of all ages. That's why we vote to give the 1% more power at the expense of the 99%. It's the illogical behavior of the incompetent.

Senior citizens having their assets seized because they neglect to get their hearing or vision corrected is a form of oppression. We're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. When black people had to ride at the back of the bus, that was a less severe form of oppression than what senior citizens face now. After all, how did it hurt to ride at the back of the bus? Senior citizens can get hearing aids and eyglasses, and black people can sit patiently at the back of the bus. By your logic, that's the way it should be.
No, not by my logic. You have twisted my logic beyond recognition in your irrational and emotional rant. Nothing I said justifies black people sitting in the back of the bus. Nor did I even address the appropriateness of senior citizens having their assets seized under various scenarios. I merely addressed certain aspects of incompetence. Debating the question of whether the USA is a fascist country (an absurd and indefensible proposition) belongs not here, but in the Politics and Other Controversies Forum.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:26 PM
 
6,751 posts, read 5,457,777 times
Reputation: 17594
Nor'Eastah:

Here is a different look at things:

My Other Half {MOH} has POA for my FIL, my FIL solo since my MIL passed away a couple years ago. He is now mid-late 80s.

1} he left a pot of water on to boil an egg and went upstairs "to wait while it came to a boil"...HAd MOH NOT gone by for a visit at the time, and found the pot literally melting to the burner {scraping the electric burner did not help to get off the aluminium of the pan off the burner rendering it useless} there COULD have been a fire!

2} he had an accident, said he didn't "see the car" in front of him that he T-boned in broad daylight!

3} he NEEDS the {external to the car} GPS to get ANYWHERE in town {he has lived here for 40+ years}. He NEEDS the GPS to GET HOME from being out in town, as he can't remember the way! He "assigns a spot a name" for the GPS to remember, then FORGETS what name he gave it to get back there. The Dr. has told him "no driving over 2 hours maximum!" IF it weren't for the GPS, he'd be lost every time!

4} He had to go to a local hospital. He could NOT remember the name of the hospital, nor the street it was on, nor how to get there, {obviously}. Finally he found it on his GPS preset places, and went there.

5} due to construction the updated GPS system took him into unfamiliar territory, he said "I had no idea where I was or how I'd get home". He CANNOT see to drive at night, but does it!!! Amazing he hasnt had a night accident! He thinks those night driving glasses' as seen on TV will keep him from accidents!

6}He bought a brand new car instead of fixing his old one. remember it could have been his last car, but instead of repairing it, he bought new, thinking it was "cheaper than fixing the other one"??? {time MAY bear that out, but???}

7} He won't spend a penny on things like a/c and lets it get to about 80F in the house. He only keeps the heat on 72, why not the a/c to 72 instead of overheating?

8} he has plenty of money, but won't pay the phone bill to make calls, the cheap bill costs him $0.10 per call, but the bill is only $25/m. He uses a computer-VOIP system that SUCKS when he calls. He wants us to call him. several time a day. Like we have time.

9} he figures since he is retired and has time, we should be able to drop everything to come "help" him, and that USUALLY does NOT mean ME, even if MOH isn't immediately available.

10} he bought a chain saw to cut some bushes, ON A LADDER, without supervison! Then CLIMBED part way up another tree to cut a branch off.DANGEROUS for a man who cannot get up off a chair without an aid of some sort!

11] speaking of which, he comes over,and cannot get out of our couch without help as it has no close arms to use for aids.His knees won't let him.

12] He has lost a LOT of weight as he thinks Ramen Noodles are GREAT, and they are, of course CHEAP! And "easy to cook". IF he remembers he has the water on to boil!!!

13} MOSt things he does the cheap way..it shocked us when he bough the new car....

14} he says MOH can "take anything you want in the house" but anything MOH does want to take, he says "no" to.

15} I haven't been there in a while, but MOH says the kitchen is A MESS, leftover food on plates days/weeks old and he doesn't do the dishes until he has none to use, and he HAS A dishwasher! MOH doesn't have time usually when there to clean up after the old man.

16} When he LOOSES something, he calls here to see if we have seen it, or know where he put it or where it went to?????? {Like we'd know???}

17} he has a cat, apparently there is stale cat food dried on plates in every room???

18} HE HAS TO GO OUT for SOMETHING 4 or 5 days a week..in the car...with the GPS to tell him how to get there and home again, he "gets bored" at home.

19} he stays in his BR with the TV or the computer BR on the floor with the bath,so he has no need ot go anywhere, except to the kitchen to boil a forgotten egg or Ramen noodles. He has chair lifts on the stairs, but rarely leaves the BR floor. Unless going OUT.

20} he can afford insurance, but goes to the VA and suffers apparently. Because it's cheap.

21} he complains of being lonely, but won't go to the Sr center. He figures we {MOH REAlly] should visit every day {we may have to start} to keep him from being lonely.Part of the reason he goes out nearly everyday. With the GPS!

22] since his knees bother him, should he be driving?

23] twice recently he ran out of gas , we had to go running to help, as he FORGOT to fill the tank?

24} he transfers money to different banks each month, convinced he will 'get a better deal' for his money. He has one bank near him he keeps, but must use the debit card and pay a $2.00 fee each time for 12 times a month to get any interest on his money. The interest he gets is far less than the $24 in fees he spends, but he thinks it is a great deal, ANOTHER reason he goes out nearly every day!

25} he now has everything he can paid by his credit card automatically so he wont "Forget to pay a bill", then he can't understand the credit card statement, and what is due to pay, so has MOH decipher it each month????

~~~Doesn't this sound like we should START thinking about involking the POA? That he is beginning to become incompetent? Like we should at least take away the keys now maybe???

~~~We really don't want to do it, because he will pester us daily for a ride somewhere. BUT maybe it is time!!!

~~~Maybe we should take over his banking too?

~~~He's not quite ready for a home, but maybe getting there???
Assisted living maybe???

Just some food for thought from the other side, as we could become the "evil enemy children" of which you speak!

best of luck to everyone as they age, may they remain healthy til the pass. WE WILL go through it ourselves!!!
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:39 PM
 
496 posts, read 568,078 times
Reputation: 2930
galaxyhi,

Definitely he is ready for assisted living. I am in my 70's and I am dealing with something like this with my DH because he has dementia. Five years ago my son and I had POA drawn up before he arrived at this point. Even if I spend every penny on care for him at assisted living, it will be worth it. Having money in the bank and dealing with the problems every day, every minute will not bring happiness to him or to me. Every older person should realize that if you can't trust your own children, who can you trust? The paid attendant? The lawyer? Besides, if you are that far gone mentally, what you don't realize won't hurt you or stress you.
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Old 08-16-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,216,996 times
Reputation: 73924
Galaxi, that man should NOT be driving.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,041,229 times
Reputation: 50796
Quote:
Originally Posted by roeslers View Post
My experience mirrors StageMomma's and I agree completely with her. As a child with a difficult 80-year-old mom, here is the other side of the story.

Mom has a $2,000 per month income. She lost her license, yet she bought a car (to "preserve her independence") and drives anyway, even though she has been declared unfit and has no insurance. She bought new furniture. A Persian carpet. All on credit. Now has no money to pay rent (since she doesn't own a home) and so she expects me to pay her rent for her. She has lived rent-free in my second home for 10 years (while I was overseas), with an expectation that she simply maintain it. She didn't take care of it or maintain it at all and it became so termite-ridden it had to be torn down. Since she had to move, but had no money, I am the one paying for her apartment now. She can't afford assisted living, and I can't afford any more than I'm already doing for her. If I had POA over her finances I would save money for her care and not let her buy all this needless stuff. Of course she would tell everyone how mean I am and controlling her money, but that would be only half the story.

She is frail and doesn't get around well, and yet does things she shouldn't---like climbing on ladders to put up drapes. Inevitably she falls, and breaks something, which occasions stays in hospitals and more difficulty with her daily care. She refuses to go to assisted living (not that we could afford it anyway), which would be a safer environment. She does everything she can to make things more difficult, without any thought to the time or finances of those who are her caregivers. We too are still working and so have a lot on our plate. She falls frequently (of course we have done things like outfitted her with a fall alarm; yet more money since she pays for nothing herself and we have no control over her finances). We have thought about having her live with us but she is so contrary, difficult, manipulative and disruptive that this is an unacceptable solution to my husband.

When a caregiver is spending ALL OF THEIR TIME taking care of an elderly person, it is time for that elderly person to consider that there might be other or better alternatives. Elders can simply wear out their adult children, who are still trying to earn a living in addition to caring for aging relatives. Continuing to live in a house with stairs or other dangers is not necessarily the best thing for an elder, even if they don't want to move. Elderly parents can be very manipulative: they know just what buttons to push, since they are the ones who programmed those buttons! And frankly if you raised kids who would truly steal your assets, then you are merely reaping the results of your own labors.

My dad on the other hand (they are long-divorced) planned ahead, went to a very nice assisted living place near me, had the funds to pay for it himself, and lived quite a long while because of the excellent care he received there.
What you are describing is typical, I think. The quite elderly and demented have no concept of the problems they create for others, or of how difficult they are.

Your mom might well be able to live in an ALF that accepts Medicaid patients, by the way. She would have to go on Medicaid, and have almost no assets. This is not uncommon. The ALFs that accept Medicaid residents are not usually as nice as the ones that accept only paying residents. But they would dose her meds for her, and feed her regular meals, and keep her safe.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,041,229 times
Reputation: 50796
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
A lot of old people are hard of hearing. They might flunk the oral test by not understanding the questions. A lot of old people who are hard of hearing are very reluctant to admit they have problems understanding what people say. So they guess what the question is. If they guess wrong, it can make them seem incompetent.

Likewise, a lot of old people might have trouble reading the written questions. Hearing problems and vision problems are signs of old age. Old people want to seem younger, and often guess what they're hearing or reading, instead of admitting they're having problems hearing it or reading it.

And old people also often get dehydrated which can make them temporarily incoherent.

For those reasons, it's very easy for an old person to be falsely convicted of having a brain beyond its freshness expiration date. And by the time their assets are seized, it's too late for them to appeal to a higher court, because they can't afford it.

In some states the situation is much worse than others. Some states leave it entirely up to the judge, who often doesn't care much, and only needs a small amount of inconclusive evidence, to quickly get the case over with, and move on to more interesting cases.
By the time the family finally gets the senior to the doctor for a checkup, there have probably been numerous problems with him or her. Family doesn't get involved, usually, until absolutely necessary. However, if kids are greedy and unprincipled, then I suppose they could arrange to have the competency test when their elder is sick or dehydrated. But I wonder how they would arrange for the doc to overlook deafness and poor eyesight?

I don't know of any cases personally like you mention. You seem to. Are these actual cases you have direct knowledge of, or are you relying on hearsay?
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,041,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
The questions, "what is today's date", "where are you right now", and "who is the president", are those questions part of a well-known test for senility? What's the name of that test?
At the doc's, my mom was tasked with her knowledge of a clock face. I can't remember the exact questions though. I think there were some other questions, and they had her walk for them. When she was admitted to the first ALF, she was asked several questions such as her name, who was president, and what season it was. (It was spring.) At first she said, "Oh I think it is Fall." Then she looked out the window and said, "It must be spring if that pretty redbud is in bloom." So, for her, who could not remember to take her meds or eat, it was still possible to make deductions.

But as I said, she was not taking care of herself. I also remember how she looked. She was sunken in, head into her shoulders, face drawn and unhappy. After a couple of months in the ALF, she had become a new person.

In terms of preplanning, she refused to do this, except to put our names on some of her CDs. We actually fought about it. Then, when we cleaned up her "office" we found an old will written years ago. She had forgotten about it! We got her a new will anyway, and that was my doing. I took her to an elder law attorney. And then, when we took her to a new town, I had the will looked at by a local attorney. We learned some useful things from that attorney.

It isn't what you know that can mess you up; it is what you don't know, and what you don't know that you don't know.
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