Can Our Grown Children Become Our Worst Enemies? (move, spouse, community)

[Nor'Eastah]

I would never have thought that I'd be asking this question.

I have become aware of 2 situations where retirees have had their entire world up-ended by their grown children, without being consulted by them, or taking part in the decision-making process:

* A 73-year-old man lost his wife to heart disease. A few months later, he had relatively minor surgery that involved a 3-day hospital stay. Upon release, he expected his daughter to drive him home. Instead, she dropped him off at a 'rest home', which he was told was temporary. He never saw his home again - it was sold shortly thereafter, and he remained at that 'rest home' until his passing, some 10 years later.

* A 78-year-old man and his 75-year-old wife were living uneventfully in their own home, doing fine. The man was proud of his Huguenot heritage, and was amassing an impressive collection of articles and memorabilia of others who shared his unusual last name; the point being that he was very sharp and active on eBay and other websites where he found these collectibles (which didn't take up much space). In less than a day, and with no warning, he and his wife were moved into a senior community, their home sold, and his collection of rarities was discarded. This was done by their son, and was a heartbreak to both of the parents.

I personally knew both of these couples, both before and after the move. They were all sharp, and in reasonably good health before the move. It seems that their children find a way to get two doctors to sign that the parent(s) are incompetent, and a court to declare the children legal guardians. In such capacity, they are then able to sell the parents' home, and have them moved to a facility that the parents have no opportunity to choose. I'm finding this both distressing and hard to believe, yet it happened.

Am I missing something here? Have any of you ever witnessed this type of thing? How does one protect oneself?

[NYgal1542]

This is horribly scary! How can we protect ourselves from this happening in our older years?

I have more to tell. Later.

[RiverBird]

First, there are "tests" to prove incompetency. When I contacted Elders at Risk for my mother who was then in her late 80s, they had me fill out a questionnaire and to verify my answers they sent a social worker to her home. The first one they sent, my mother answered the door and knew immediately what was up when she saw the briefcase. The social worker reported that my mother said she was making lunch for herself and then going to the bank and could not invite her in. Mother ran the the next one off her porch screaming at her and that was the end of that.

Second, be careful whom you choose as DPA (durable power of atty). You may not want to choose one of your relatives, for the reasons you implicate. Third, get a good lawyer lined up in case you ever have to prove your competency. Fourth, never hold any assets jointly with anyone other than a spouse. Fifth, never get in a car with anyone after a hospital stay and keep the combo to your home a secret!

ETA: www.eldercareteam.com/public/743.cfm

[grampaTom]

Something doesn't add up with the above stories. I have been a Family Physician practicing since 1987 and have been involved in cases where people REALLY needed to be in a nursing home and the hoops the family (and I) had to jump through were numerous. I find it hard to believe a mentally competent person would wind up in a nursing home against their wishes. And YES, be very careful who you assign as your power of attorney!!!

[willow wind]

I too am a hard time understanding the above stories.

Having someone declared mentally incompetent has to go through a long process. Usually through probate court ( at least in my state ). It can't happen without the elder person's knowledge. The elder person, of course, has the opportunity to hire their own attorney and to defend against any accusation of mental decline. Then the court decides who is in charge of the elder person & their assets if declared incompetent. It may well be a neutral person and not family.

Even if declared incompetent, the elder's assests are used for their care- acounting has to be made monthly to probate court.

To enter a care facility, nursing home, etc. there has to be an appliacation process. The home wants to know where the money for care is coming. If the elder person has a house you can be sure that the house is going to be part of the elder person's assets and is not going to be sold willy- nilly so the kids can get the profit. Not happening.

Something more is going on with the noted situations than we are being made aware. It just doesn't make sense.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

First, there are "tests" to prove incompetency...Second, be careful whom you choose as DPA (durable power of atty). You may not want to choose one of your relatives, for the reasons you implicate. Third, get a good lawyer lined up in case you ever have to prove your competency. Fourth, never hold any assets jointly with anyone other than a spouse. Fifth, never get in a car with anyone after a hospital stay and keep the combo to your home a secret!

Originally Posted by grampaTom

Something doesn't add up with the above stories. I have been a Family Physician practicing since 1987 and have been involved in cases where people REALLY needed to be in a nursing home and the hoops the family (and I) had to jump through were numerous.

Originally Posted by willow wind

I too am a hard time understanding the above stories.

Having someone declared mentally incompetent has to go through a long process. Usually through probate court ( at least in my state ). It can't happen without the elder person's knowledge.

You've all given me something to think about. I have known instances where much was done behind the scenes, "probably" without the knowledge of the elders. They may not have suspected that anything was up, and would never suspect their own children. Yes, I am aware that patients are tested before they are declared incompetent, but we all may have heard of instances where this was worked out privately between the children and the doctors. If not, we should know. Politics doesn't end at retirement.

The process may be more difficult in some states, I'll acknowledge that. It looks as if this may indeed be a case where having a good attorney in advance may be the best move.

I do know that in these two cases I cited, the parents absolutely did not know in advance that anything was up. They trusted their children. The kids did NOT have POA, at least not at the point when the move occurred. Is it possible for a doctor to "test" a patient for competency, without telling the patient?

[willow wind]

I don't see how a doctor can test a patient without their knowledge and HIPPA laws would prevent the doctor from discussing the patient with their children without the elder person's consent. Too many holes in this story.

[TheShadow]

I don't see how someone could sell someone else's home without a POA. That part of the story REALLY doesn't make any sense to me. We have recently had my MIL tested for dementia and it is a test that is part written and part oral, about 15-20 questions that test various mental functions, takes about 5-10 minutes. It is quite obviously a "test", not something that you do without them knowing. As far as I know you can't have someone declared incompetent without a competency hearing before a judge and the person being judged has certain legal rights including the right to an attorney.

[convextech]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

Am I missing something here? Have any of you ever witnessed this type of thing? How does one protect oneself?

There is no way any of this could have happened without the elderly parents signing over their rights to their children and being declared incompetent; that's just hogwash. Someone is lying here.

[arrieros81]

You're only getting one side of the story.