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Old 10-16-2015, 07:39 AM
 
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I found an article that really resonates with me. I think I can use it as a guide to living my best life in my remaining years. It really puts in perspective how the losses and challenges of aging are offset by the wisdom and wholeness that can be reached if we strive for gerotranscendence:

Carl Jung And The Art Of Aging Well*|*Kathy Gottberg

At times I have wondered whether I am just giving up, such as not dyeing my hair. But as this says:

"Unfortunately what we all too often witness in our culture is an obsession with youth, activity and productivity for as long as a person lives. That's why it is important to note that aging successfully is not always the same as aging consciously or well. Most of the time when talking about aging in Western cultures there is the implication that the "best" way to age is to do everything we can to continue doing what we've always done for as long as possible -- and to look equally young while doing it!
...we sometimes erroneously project midlife values, activity patterns and expectations onto old age, and then define these values, patterns and expectations as successful aging. Maybe our projections are not just rooted in midlife, but also in western culture and white middle-class hopes for 'success' to continue into old age." When you think about it, what makes us think that we will be the same person with the same desires at 80 as we are at 50? And why would we want to be the same?"

Bingo! And I have been chastising myself for wanting to end my experiment of trying to be a more social being than I truly am. I've been yearning for more solitude---which it turns out is right within this gerotranscendence thing:

"...aging offers us the opportunity to redefine our self and relationships in order to arrive at a new understanding regarding fundamental existential questions about life. This possible natural progression towards maturation and wisdom is a stage he calls "Gerotranscendence." Tornstam explains that those who achieve this state often become, "...less self-occupied and at the same time more selective in the choice of social and other activities." This time of life can offer us, "... an increased feeling of affinity with past generations and a decrease in superfluous social interaction." When a person strives for "gerotranscendence" he or she will likely be less interested in material things and crave "solitary meditation." And like Jung and his striving toward wholeness, Tornstam says, "There is also often a feeling of cosmic communion with the spirit of the universe and a redefinition of time, space, life and death."

I was never that great at making the most of being a kid, teen, young or middle-aged adult, but I really think I can shine at this gerotranscendent old age thing! As Carl Jung said, "The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are." I am now 100% determined to become who I truly am at 61, just the way I was trying to do so on the flip side of that, when I was 16. To this end, I will reject that which doesn't serve me and embracing that which does (last week I saw a Metropolitan Opera broadcast at a movie theater right down the street---talk about transcendence with that beauty!).

Anyone on board with me so we can support each other in this?
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
When you think about it, what makes us think that we will be the same person with the same desires at 80 as we are at 50? And why would we want to be the same?"

As Carl Jung said, "The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are."
Yes, I agree with Jung. But- who we are, who we want to be, and how we see ourselves at any given point in time is still mired in not only the complexity of our individual dynamic, but also unfortunately too often affected by how others say they see us and their expectations (our families, friends, society).

So, yes, as I have said here before in another thread- my goal is to live a life that truly reflects who I am. In some ways, I am more fortunate than most in that I have always been independent and rebellious, so have a long history of rejecting those social mores that don't serve me, but still- it is nonetheless sometimes difficult to sort out what I want as opposed to what society tells me what I as a woman should want/look like/behave, etc.

It is of course a worthy goal to strive to become who we really are, but while it sounds- and in actuality IS - simple, the path toward that goal can be bumpy and riddled with detours and false starts
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:04 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,893,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvepaw View Post
Yes, I agree with Jung. But- who we are, who we want to be, and how we see ourselves at any given point in time is still mired in not only the complexity of our individual dynamic, but also unfortunately too often affected by how others say they see us and their expectations (our families, friends, society).

So, yes, as I have said here before in another thread- my goal is to live a life that truly reflects who I am. In some ways, I am more fortunate than most in that I have always been independent and rebellious, so have a long history of rejecting those social mores that don't serve me, but still- it is nonetheless sometimes difficult to sort out what I want as opposed to what society tells me what I as a woman should want/look like/behave, etc.

It is of course a worthy goal to strive to become who we really are, but while it sounds- and in actuality IS - simple, the path toward that goal can be bumpy and riddled with detours and false starts
We have how ever been allowed to strip away the forced roles related to work and community expectations of our work if a factor. It is the opportunity to strip several contrived layers away.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
2,681 posts, read 2,162,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvepaw View Post
Yes, I agree with Jung. But- who we are, who we want to be, and how we see ourselves at any given point in time is still mired in not only the complexity of our individual dynamic, but also unfortunately too often affected by how others say they see us and their expectations (our families, friends, society).
I noticed that, as my parent's generation got older, my relatives were often perceived as stubborn and uncooperative when they insisted on living their own way and not the way their children thought they should live. As I get older, I'm beginning to appreciate that, as you age, living the way that you choose can indeed become a struggle; against all those people who want you to make the decisions that they think are appropriate for your age.

This includes not only family and friends, but all the concerned professionals in the health care system, who expect you to spend the rest of your life shuttling between one doctor's office and another, undergoing endless tests and procedures, or just warming the chairs in their waiting rooms.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,485 posts, read 10,430,494 times
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Originally Posted by CapnTrips View Post
I noticed that, as my parent's generation got older, my relatives were often perceived as stubborn and uncooperative when they insisted on living their own way and not the way their children thought they should live. As I get older, I'm beginning to appreciate that, as you age, living the way that you choose can indeed become a struggle; against all those people who want you to make the decisions that they think are appropriate for your age.

This includes not only family and friends, but all the concerned professionals in the health care system, who expect you to spend the rest of your life shuttling between one doctor's office and another, undergoing endless tests and procedures, or just warming the chairs in their waiting rooms.
Excellent ideas here! My concerns are, if I allow myself to be less physically fit, less active, is that everyone from doctors to family to social service workers (although we are too affluent for those...they do seem to wheedle their way into things) will decide that they know what is best for me. And they don't.

As long as I appear fit and active and in charge of myself and my life, it holds them all at bay.

What we have going for us is a unit of 4 adults, all family: myself, wife, brother, and her brother. We live in separate housing on the same 33 acres of rural land in northern Maine. We have all agreed to be each other's battle-axes. I know of no one else doing this; whether it works, only time will tell.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
2,681 posts, read 2,162,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
Excellent ideas here! My concerns are, if I allow myself to be less physically fit, less active, is that everyone from doctors to family to social service workers (although we are too affluent for those...they do seem to wheedle their way into things) will decide that they know what is best for me. And they don't.
Society's representatives may honestly believe that they are doing what is best for you, but the truth is that they are doing what they have been taught is best for society in general, i.e., for everyone else but you.

Assuming that an individual is mentally competent, we can safely say that they are the best judge of what type of life is in their best interest, even if that flies in the face of what may be commonly considered "healthy" or "reasonable," because quality of life does not depend only on such things as whether you have the right vittles in your cupboard, or your blood pressure completely under control. It is very much dependent on the extent to which you feel free to be yourself. If you can't live how you want, think or say whatever you feel is right by the time you reach retirement age, when exactly do you get to do so? Taking this away from a person is like stealing their soul.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:33 AM
 
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Yes, sounds good to me! This thing with wanting to look and act young, but still having a closed mind, gets under my skin.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:36 AM
 
11,181 posts, read 10,470,006 times
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Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
This time of life can offer us, "... an increased feeling of affinity with past generations and a decrease in superfluous social interaction." When a person strives for "gerotranscendence" he or she will likely be less interested in material things and crave "solitary meditation." And like Jung and his striving toward wholeness, Tornstam says, "There is also often a feeling of cosmic communion with the spirit of the universe and a redefinition of time, space, life and death."
I relate strongly to this, especially the bolded.

Quote:
I was never that great at making the most of being a kid, teen, young or middle-aged adult, but I really think I can shine at this gerotranscendent old age thing!
Right there with you!

There is much in this thread - not only the OP's source but also the comments by other posters - that shed light on why - for some of us - these are indeed the best years of our lives.
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:26 PM
 
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I don't know if the fact of modern medicine and it's allowing for a larger populace of old folks is changing the entire idea of aging from one that spoke to a fear of aging to our current welcoming this stage of life as a kind of just reward. In my own case I've long realized the downside of retirement could be the fact of our having less time to live, and far less time to do the things that require the stamina of days gone by.

After looking around for a suitable place to house my wife's ailing aunt some years back I was shocked to see the human warehouses for the elderly that were in plentiful supply but somehow overlooked by me until that time. Since then I've often wondered about the eventual end of life issues we all will face, sooner or later. At seventy I don't want to look or feel younger, our age IS our governor and as such we listen to the body more than the "experts" out there (Dr Oz) who have not reached our level of understanding regarding the aging process, to them it's an academic thing, an abstract, for us it's reality.

I see plenty of machismo folly in the older male population, not to mention the dyed dazzlers who think they could easily compete with their granddaughters for male attraction. My neighbor at seventy five and recently diagnosed with prostate cancer bemoaning the selling of his RV, or his wife who feels done in because she has wrinkled skin are just two examples of what I don't want to be in old age.

As we age we can't expect to be in a state of perpetual youth, and even though that seems to be obvious it isn't. The AARP ad models that depict the average retirees as youthful, silver haired, tennis playing, world travelling, peak health, specimens are a laugh for the fact that it just ain't' so. We're old, and that's OK, yes I know we are supposed to look our best, but like that sixty Chevy that hasn't been rehabbed, we are what we are, old..
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Colorado
22,638 posts, read 6,387,896 times
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The idea of meditating on the whole of life, instead of current trends and fads, may look like a loss of
interest in living but that's not true...just because you don't care what shade of lipstick is currently
the most popular doesn't mean you value life less, you just see many things in a different light. (A 68 yr old)
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