All of our previous generation relatives failing at the same time (divorce, divorced)
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I don't know what about cremation creeps you out. Personally I am creeped out by taking a dead body and dressing it up and putting on makeup, pretending that it's alive by getting it a nice, comfy, satin lined bed of the finest mahogany and parading it around town in a limo. No offense intended to any one who has done this with their loved ones, but I find that far creepier than returning their body to the essential chemicals of which it was made up and scattering them in a place that was special to them, so that they may become a part of that place for eternity. Little bits of them will exist for eons to come in the form of plants, flowers, the very earth beneath our feet, or drift forever in the sea if that is the place they loved. Far better than rotting in a fancy box underground. But that's just my view...
OP, you say they will not discuss their final arrangements, but I think you have to press the
issue. If they shut down the discussion, just follow up that shutdown with the statement "Fine, we'll just do whatever we can afford" and let it drop. Then do whatever you can afford.
Priority is to do what is decent for those who did not provide for their "after-care", and really no more than that is necessary. If they wanted a big funeral, etc, they should have seen to it themselves. And as for your kids, well if they can't figure it out by the time they are in their 40's...That is no longer your problem. They are all grown up and it is time for you to take care of your future. Their future is their responsibility.
Extremely well put.
I would add a suggestion for each of these elders. Make up a one-page form, a simple questionnaire with checkoff boxes:
Do you have a Living Will / Healthcare Proxy and where is it filed
Do you have a Power of Attorney, who (and where)
Do you have a Will or Trust documents, and where are they filed
Can you list your financial institutions please (no need for account numbers)
What is your burial wish __ burial __ cremation __ church service __ other
How will your survivors access the funds for burial or cremation, and a service ___________
etc.
If they don't have their papers in order (Will, Proxy, etc) this would nudge them to do it.
As far as I can tell most of them have given no previous thought as as to how the end of their lives should be handled. They have lurched into the end without a plan.
Now would be a good time to broach the subject with them, you know, while they still have their mental faculties. There's still time to get a plan together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azoria
We cannot save this many people.
Unless you have a Savior Complex, why would you want to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by azoria
I feel trapped and unable to sort through what we can do and what we cannot do.
Then you probably need some intense counseling in order to learn how to cope.
There is a lot of great advice here so I can't really add much. I told my DH to what he feels comfortable with for me. That will probably be cremation but I don't think I'll notice. If he has to pull the plug on me, I don't want him to do it either until he can look at himself in the mirror the next day and know it was the right thing to do.
In other parts of the world, death is treated as a natural part of living. India disposes of its dead on funeral fires or tosses them into the river, which isn't a comforting scene to my Western mind. I think we need stop feeding the funeral business which only joins the IRS in profiting from our demise.
So these people are our parents, and the grandparents of our kids and their spouses.
Generally they are in their 80's somewhere, and approaching 90.
There are quite a few of them. Half a dozen or so. As far as I can tell most of them have given no previous thought as as to how the end of their lives should be handled. They have lurched into the end without a plan.
They are in and out of hospitals. They are in care and out of care. They have no money and no resources. They are all at the end of life and we are trying to figure how to deal with it, and with so many of them all at once.
And if I may be frank, the burial costs alone for these many people, I have no idea how it will be paid for - we're still on the hook for our kids student loans!
Some of our kids are failing as well. 40 years old, and on second and third husbands/wives, numerous children, dead broke, half lifetime of bad decisions taking its toll.
So we wish for all of our family members to be cared for in a respectful way.
We cannot save this many people.
I feel trapped and unable to sort through what we can do and what we cannot do. We are just regular working Americans witnessing several generations going down all at once, en masse.
I am feeling paralyzed by the scope of the need. Prioritization is necessary. I can't figure it out.
Anybody willing to proffer some insight?
Welcome to the sandwich generation. Stuck in the middle, parents who didn't plan for the end. Kids struggling. My dad passed quickly but my mom had a stroke and it feels like my life ended the day she had it. I think she must have planned to pass like my dad because she didn't have a plan in place, no POA, no burial, no will and yes I tried to talk to her about it long ago but she always said, I'll think about it. I think that she planned on the sale of the house paying for it. Now that it didn't work out that way and the state will come for recovery once she passes, it's been a nightmare and I'm feeling dumped on, physically (by her physical needs) and financially (her lack of financial planning that is falling on me) and being that she was lower middle class even though she is now poor she can't get help from the government. Yes, welcome to the sandwich generation.
Also, just if it helps someone, I found out when I buried my sister that they have "loner" coffins.
My sister wanted to be cremated, BUT she wanted a service as well. The funeral home "rents" you a nice coffin with a liner thingee in it for the service, and then they are removed for cremation.
I never new that. Learn something new every day I guess.
So these people are our parents, and the grandparents of our kidsand their spouses....
I feel trapped and unable to sort through what we can do and what we cannot do. We are just regular working Americans witnessing several generations going down all at once, en masse.
I am feeling paralyzed by the scope of the need. Prioritization is necessary. I can't figure it out.
Anybody willing to proffer some insight?
Your post was a bit confusing to me, so I have clipped it down. Even though you are talking about death, you are in a "life boat" situation.
1. If these people are the parents of you and your husband, that is four people. Riverbird's suggestion was excellent for an inventory on what each one has or has not done, and what resources they have.
2. "...and their spouses" surely you don't mean that you are taking on your kid's spouses' obligations in any way!! If so, get real and shove them out of the financial "life boat" as far as their problems are concerned. Overboard and row away.
3. Your kids should be handling their school debt loans, while you and your husband and any of your siblings handle the elderly. Shove the adult kids out of the financial life boat in the next thirty days...bad life decisions, multiple spouses = excess weight. They'll sink the boat.
4. As these four elderly are not deceased yet, then as you know there are medical bill aplenty to come before death. Therefore, you really need to get over your cremation silly willies because you should be thinking of absolutely the cheapest cremation possible, plastic bag and cardboard box covered in phony leather (I did it)...mainly because you probably won't have much money left for anything else. Trust me, the dead don't care if you use their shin bones to play croquet.
5. You don't mention that you and your husband have siblings, but if so organize a family meeting and see who is going to be taking on some of these expenses.
6. Be clear-headed, and be ruthless. If you are "saving" X, then Y and Z go overboard. Otherwise you and your husband will be overwhelmed in a morass of debt and emotional exhaustion, and much of what you will attempt to do will end up being a half-assed mess because you did not make a passenger list and nail it on the mast. Take care of the fewest you can as best you can...otherwise you will all go under in one fashion or another.
I'd wish you good luck, but you need backbone and an iron will instead.
Your post was a bit confusing to me, so I have clipped it down. Even though you are talking about death, you are in a "life boat" situation.
1. If these people are the parents of you and your husband, that is four people.
2. "...and their spouses" surely you don't mean that you are taking on your kid's spouses' obligations in any way!! If so, get real and shove them out of the financial "life boat" as far as their problems are concerned. Overboard and row away.
3. Your kids should be handling their school debt loans, while you and your husband and any of your siblings handle the elderly. Shove the adult kids out of the financial life boat in the next thirty days...bad life decisions, multiple spouses = excess weight. They'll sink the boat.
4. As these four elderly are not deceased yet, then as you know there are medical bill aplenty to come before death. Therefore, you really need to get over your cremation silly willies because you should be thinking of absolutely the cheapest cremation possible, plastic bag and cardboard box covered in phony leather (I did it)...mainly because you probably won't have much money left for anything else. Trust me, the dead don't care if you use their shin bone for a can opener.
5. You don't mention that you and your husband have siblings, but if so organize a family meeting and see who is going to be taking on some of these expenses.
6. Be clear-headed, and be ruthless. If you are "saving" X, then Y and Z go overboard. Otherwise you and your husband will be overwhelmed in a morass of debt and emotional exhaustion, and much of what you will attempt to do will end up being a half-assed mess because you did not make a passenger list and nail it on the mast. Take care of the fewest you can as best you can...otherwise you will all go under in one fashion or another.
I'd wish you good luck, but you need backbone and an iron will instead.
Yes, there are holes in the story. Maybe the op can fill them in for us.
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