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Old 12-23-2015, 02:22 AM
Location: R.I.
979 posts, read 606,070 times
Reputation: 4243


Originally Posted by Paka View Post
ABSOLUTELY!!!! Since I put so much of my income into the Thrift Savings Program (the gov equivalent of the IRA or 401K) I actually bring home MORE money being retired (but there is no more going into that retirement account.....)
I find it so shocking that many people I work with and several of them within a few years of retirement have absolutely no clue how much $$ they have in their TSP accounts
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:21 AM
Location: RVA
2,167 posts, read 1,266,787 times
Reputation: 4460
C &C, take it to the political forum. Your posts are so far off topic, I don't know what the moderators are waiting for.

Others have said it, so it doesn't bear repeating, but I will anyway. ;-). People seem to constantly intermix income, expenses, take home, gross, pre tax and post tax withdrawals as if they are the same thing, simply because its measured in dollars or euros or whatever. The people that discuss what their actual costs are to live and have done so, are thankfully discussing apples and apples. What seldom gets mentioned at the same time (exactly as ER and others mentioned) is how does your disposable income compare to your expenses pre and post retirement. Ideally, your pre & post retirement income is appreciably more than your living expenses, which meant you were/are saving the balance. The difference being that the balance is significantly less post retirement. Presumably, excess income post retirement translates to withdrawing less from saved accounts, which increases your comfort level in retirement. Naturally, if the majority of your income comes from savings, there is no excess, you simply withdraw less principal. I am glad to hear that so many are finding it relatively consistent to have more than adequate income post retirement if they had more than adequate income pre retirement and were consistent savers. The combination of mindset, reality and utility along with historical precedent in their lives seems to add up to success. It reduces my anxiety about retiring to read so many reports, while still 4-5 years out.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:08 AM
5,227 posts, read 2,315,919 times
Reputation: 3667
You may not think the variables are relevant, I am one who experienced, the pension being turned over to the Pension Guarantee company. At this point, If I chose to retire, the income would be considerably less that what I previously earned and less than what I currently earn. Pension Guarantee pays fixed amounts, which is about 1/3 of what your pension would normally have been.
A second annuity was purchased for long term employees, it delivers a very small amount, but at least enough to cover expense for life insurance.
We had an employee stock ownership which was to be retirement monies - it was wiped out, I got $1100 for the 110K, thanks to "State Street Bank" eroding our 51% ownership stake at the rate of $1 a share, when the stock had a high of triple digits at one point.(we could not independently sell our stock). The court allowed them to liquidate our %, allowed unions to divide membership, end result, the company came out of bankruptcy, with executives owning 15% of the new re-organized company, and they liquidate our stock to the tune of the $1100 dollars I mentioned with no position in the new company structure.

So, when and as I talk about factors, they are real in terms of what one invest in life with hopes of good retirement income.

If anyone thinks the impacts of changes in what is pension funds and what is working income is not connected in some political, system and other factors, then they are not addressing the issues. Medicare and Medicare/Medicaid are directly political, the Governor in this state refused the federal Medicaid money, and people were denied benefits access, some had to fork over in some cases their entire pension and social security and/or have family members pitch in to cover assisted living expense. These are retirement years realities. Not much is said about Long term care insurance, which is a necessity for seniors and it does not come cheaply as one ages.
At 59 1/2 money could be taken out of 401K, with % penalty, or rolled over into a IRA with less % penalty for withdrawal. Pension income in some states is taxed, in this state, it's $6000 that can be had without tax, the rest is taxed. Social Security is not taxed.

I know people who retired, because it was to their advantage to retire, because they would bring home more or equal if they retired, so working was of no benefit, beyond just keeping busy. some jobs City, State and Federal do not deduct social security, they have defined pension,

Considering all is healthy and one had good income pre-retirement, they would generally have good income post retirement.
It is suggestible to look at the allowable equity valuation one has before they hit the wall of limits imposed upon various benefits, the limits can be costly, or if equity is below certain levels, the benefits can be of great help in retirement.

Cash flow is great - even when I was younger I looked at people who were thrilled to get pensions of $700-900 in the 1980's, after 10 yrs their lives drastically changed economically. In the 1990's the estimate was one needed at least 300K to retire, now I hear the figure continually that one needs $1 million to have a suitable long term return during retirement.

I have 5-6 yrs to put in to get half my income as pension, which gives me two partial pension checks, by that time I can draw full Social Security. It will be far less than I can earn working. Sadly that forces me to work to 67, Where I was as I previously thought positioned to retire at 62.

One may not care to be aware or made aware of many things, but in 4-5 yrs, the whole dynamics "can change".
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:27 PM
5,227 posts, read 2,315,919 times
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Information regarding Pensions

Polling data about Pensions

Pension Accountability Act:

List of the 10 biggest failed Pension Plans

These things can impact what one can expect and in some cases may change what one is receiving. the previous post which some deem irrelevant are very relevant to grasp the scope of pension crisis. It is directly connected to whether ones cash flow in retirement is made to be even more drastically different than earning and income.

This is why we see so many retired seniors returning to work, and some people not retiring until they have stored away more funds. It is difficult to recover and meet any projected goal after 25-30+ yrs of working and ones pension plan fails.
This can and will change the dramatics of paycheck vs pension check - cash flow standings.

I read other post in the retirement section, some people have high net worth, they are not too worried about many of the variables. But considering the readers of these sections are not all "high income earners", it is only fair to discuss the aspect of income disparity,as well as the related causes, conditions and other factors; especially when talking about the difference in cash flow while working vs cash flow when retired. Not everyone is fortunate to have high earning and multiple plans and surely not all readers of these post fit any single category.

Hopefully the links are helpful for some to take a broader look, even at things people consider to be secure, the links provides some beneficial information.

Retired, its cheaper than working, is more a question, than it is a statement for a great many people.
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:18 PM
Location: RVA
2,167 posts, read 1,266,787 times
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Again, the OP is about "do you find it cheaper in retirement than when you worked", not "my retirement income has gone to heck because of government abuse, company theft, or failed pensions" .
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:18 AM
5,227 posts, read 2,315,919 times
Reputation: 3667
Retired, its cheaper than working, is for some as much a question, as it is for some a statement for a great many people.

Changes in pension will certainly make a difference- your income may be great and that is a good thing, but you are omitting to think about the many people who don't have your fortunate situations, they too are readers of these post.
4-5 years is a long time, one may find time has many unknown things within it, and the information shared may for some become very important.
Retire is not just a point, it is a process of ongoing life, which has in some cases a long term for some, and within that term many things can exist. It's why we see so many -going back to work". It's hard to say if its cheaper as a whole, because it often is not based just on recent past experiences but includes experiences yet to come.
One can have disdain for realities of what some experiences as government abuse, company theft, or failed pensions, but unfortunate as it is, those things are "ongoing realities" in this life, both while working and when one is within the retirement life frame.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:13 PM
Location: RVA
2,167 posts, read 1,266,787 times
Reputation: 4460
Please understand that I do not disagree or dispute the abuses you pointed out. They are very serious and a tragic abuse of power and disgraceful to the extreme. They are just not part of this thread.
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Old 12-25-2015, 08:44 AM
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,463 posts, read 5,930,681 times
Reputation: 16159
C and C may have legit points. But he/she needs too understand that on a message board virtually nobody bothers to read 9 paragraph rants regardless of content.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:51 AM
5,227 posts, read 2,315,919 times
Reputation: 3667
I get what you guys are saying, but my point is: everyone who reads the threads are not in the elite status or mindset of having disposable income to say its cheaper not working.
These threads address a broad range of what people think and how people live in retirement as it relates to whether it is cheaper or more costly than working, its not just for the elite or well to do set.

Reality is for some, it is not cheaper in retirement, than when they worked. It's rather sad that you don't see beyond your current situations to consider those who don't have the luxury you have of high income which gave the options to have various annuities or generous retirement benefits. you may look at "today" and make measure of this or that, but if one continues to live- many tomorrows will come and tomorrows can change many things, even for those who feel an economic elite-ness today.
I'd gather there are some who read these threads, even while they contemplate whether or not to go seek out additional work income to meet their needs and wants.
that's why I repeated:
"Retired, its cheaper than working, is for some as much a question, as it is for some a statement for a great many people." It's easy, let those who read what may apply to them have opportunity to do so, while you may want to only read what applies to you. It's a big world- have compassion's for the broad range of conditions as to what is the cost and expense of being retired and if it is more or less costly. It is certain, everyone who reads content is not as fortunate as those who challenge thread content.
It would be great if everyone was as fortunate to say its cheaper than working.

I visit senior retired persons facilities very very often, I see first hand the things I address, I also visit assisted living facilities of retired persons, as well as speak with the administrators, who speak about the expense and what many find as economic challenge to cover expenses.
Some have spoke of Medicare and it's parts, I'd say many may want to read those materials, understand the cost and limitations, as well as areas which address limited retirement income persons.

Compassion must be broad to go beyond ones own conditions and situations. Information can be hope for some and understanding for others, it can be many things when dealing with life and its expenses, be it surpluses or deficits as it relates to income within retirement.

"Merry Christmas and A Happy and Prosperous New Year to All"

Last edited by Chance and Change; 12-25-2015 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:10 PM
3,346 posts, read 3,049,864 times
Reputation: 4880
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
C and C may have legit points. But he/she needs too understand that on a message board virtually nobody bothers to read 9 paragraph rants regardless of content.
I can't give a rep again!
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